Andalusian Secession?

[Jay Bee]

Spanish bombs in Andalusia, yo te cuero, o ma corasoon (The Clash)

Thread inspired by the Pinsapo connnection and the vast amount of Andalusians in this forum

I read a few weeks ago in an English tourist guide a peculiar account on the Spanish peripheral nationalisms (contradictory words in themselves). What really shocked me was a comment about some failed attempt to separate Andalusia from the rest of Spain in the late XIX century. I had never heard anything about this so I took it as another bit of "English extravagance". But now the thing came to my mind again. Would you guys care to comment about this?

On a related topic, what do you guys know about Don Blas? I only know what I read in the Andalus Nation page a long time ago, so this is quite biased info.


EDIT: typos. I type too fast (or my fingers are too fat)


[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Waku]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 05-04-2001 10:18 AM ...failed attempt to separate Andalusia from the rest of Spain in the late XIX century.

It probably refers to The Federal Constitution of Antequera, 1883:Failed attempt to declare Andalusia as an independent federal state voluntarily integrated in a Hispanic federation.
http://www.isocanda.org/adn/0698doc.htm http://www.nuevoandalucismo.org/nacionalismo.htm

I must confess I'm quite unaware of it.

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 05-04-2001 10:18 AM what do you guys know about Don Blas?

The Madrid centralism in 19th cent. had severe effects on Andalusia, Blas Infante and the Antequera Const. are two reactions against it.
http://www.p-andalucista.org/p-andal.../framhisto.htm

[kIndal]

Yes, this movements existed as Basque Country or Catalonia, it is the age of nationalism in Spain and of course South Spain wasn´t an exception (I don´t know if you know that in 1640 the kingdom of Andalusia (Seville,Cordova and Jaen) made a revolt agaisnt Spanish rule ruled by Medina Sidonea).
Blas Infante was the most important representant of this nationalism, I think as Sabino Arana or the Catalonian one (I don´t remeber name).
But this movements don´t work because Andalusia isn´t a united region, it is too big to be a unique Autonomy and is very hetetogeny and with a lot of diferences between provinces.
If you are interested i have a pair of books about it:
*Andalucia en la revolucion nacionalista.
*El ideal andaluz

[Jay Bee]

Was Blas as bigotted as Sabino????

[kIndal]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 05-04-2001 02:50 PM Was Blas as bigotted as Sabino????

I think so, he speaks in his work about a special Andalusian race, that came from Aryan (ario?) race, "Arganthonio isn´t a Phoenician or Etiophian name, is Aryan one", and he he speaks about a Andalusian empire based in Tartessian empire from Algarve (Portugal) to Alicante (Valencia). But too, I have to said that in other parts he speak that Andalusian race is a mix of lot of races, and Andalusian have African blood and it isn´t a problem.

[Jay Bee]

You have answered another of the things I did not understand about Andalusian separatism: why the eight provinces and not the Algarve, Lower Extremadura, Murcia and Southern Alicante? But I see Blas was also after all these teritories too. These guys want it all!

Isn't Almeria much closer to Murcia than to Huelva or Cadiz? (I mean ethnically, historically and culturally, not geographically )

[Waku]

Whether we like it or not Andalusia is an extension of Castile, but it's the most strongly differentiated one (Galicia, Catalonia, Euskadi,... are not castilian extensions imho)

Algarve is not a castilian extension.
Murcia, lower Extremadura... are not so strongly differents from inner Castile.

But... What about Ceuta & Melilla, I really think people from there are Andalusian, what do you think?

[Jay Bee]

I see your point, but I do not know if I agree with the appreciation about the Algarve. Why those lands and their people must be essentially different from onubenses sevillanos or gaditanos?

I totally agree with Ceuta and Melilla being part of Andalusia. I seem to recall however that they were not 'accepted' into the Autonmous Community mostly for economic reasons. Am I right?

Also do not you think that Andalusia is too big? Would not it be more efficient (administratively-speaking) to partition it into two communities? After all this is what was done to Old Castile. Santander and Logroño were separated. While one might find a tenuous justification for Santander, why the hell was Logroño left out if not for 'economic reasons'? Same for Madrid and New Castile. As the Castilian Nationalist Party cries: why 5 Castiles?

[Waku]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 05-04-2001 04:35 I dunno where are you trying to go .

Nowhere, just asking I guess I am a bit too contaminated by the issue of territorial integrity and can't help establish parallels with nationalistic tendencies from other parts of the bull hide Guess you know what I was thinking about

I may be too contaminated as well by some lunatics posting to the Andalus Nation forum. I haven't been there in ages (you can't talk there, just offend or be offended) but I vividly remember the emphatic defense by many regulars of the Algarve as an integral part of the holy Tartessian heritage. Kindal's comments on Infante made me think this was a generalized belief. The Algarve was definitely a part of Tartessos, wasn't it?

But what I fail to understand is why Andalusia was constituted by 8 provinces (whenever that may happened) and other very proximal territories were left out. Specifically, why Almeria is Andalusia and Murcia is not? Who decided on this? Under what criteria? I asked that above to our almeriense expert but he does not seem to be on line.

But hey, this is all casual talk. It's just that things like this bug me from time to time -- bastard products of my restless mind Like Violeta parra once sung, "por un puñado de tierra no quiero guerra"



[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Waku]

You did it again

[Jay Bee]

Oh my Can you restore it?

I am seriosly considering to ask MarkG to remove my mod abilities. It's clear I do not use them properly. Other mods do not seem to have the problem I have with this

[Waku]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 05-04-2001 05:29 PM Can you restore it?

Nope.

But basically I said that Algarve is linguistically different form Andalusia (quite enough to me). Naples & Sicily are perhaps more realted to andalusia than algarve

That I suspect the reasons about Ceuta & Melilla are mostly political

and that Seville shouldn't be the new andalusian centralism (Cordova & Granava deserve to be capital as much as Seville, let's give them some consejerÃas)

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 05-04-2001 05:29 PM I am seriosly considering to ask MarkG to remove my mod abilities. It's clear I do not use them properly. Other mods do not seem to have the problem I have with this

Don't mess with another man's post, and you won't mess it up! No need to lose your special duties, just don't be so frekin' lazy!



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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[Jay Bee]

Snif bueno, lo sorry . Joder, ultimamente casi siempre uso Explorer. Pero esta vez fui a usar Netscape y con ese no pude salvar tu post. Con Explorer creo que si hubiera podido.

Bueno regresemos al topic...

Do you know why/how/when Andalucia was constituted with 8 provinces?

Do you agree that Algarve belonged to Tartessos? What do we do that always seem to end up in here?

[Jay Bee]

quote: Don't mess with another man's post, and you won't mess it up! No need to lose your special duties, just don't be so frekin' lazy!

Oh no, the problem is not laziness but that the edit and reply buttons are both in the upper right corner. For some $%^& reason I keep clicking on the edit button instead of the other one


[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited May 04, 2001).]