HRE NES II: Der Aufstieg

[Nimitz]

Bohemian Orders

Issue rumors promising lands of richness in near Vienna for any slavs who will move there.

100 d. to continue the road improvements

100 d for further spying in former moravian lands

100 d to improve the Church in Prague

Trade 200 d of iron for 240 d of amber as a token for the beginning of our new relations with the Polans

Split the command of the army of Prague with Ondrej z Trutnov taking command of 225 Knights, 450 Sergeants, 500 Medium Spearmen (light, shield, spear), 300 Light Spearmen (shield, spear), and 150 Medium Woodsmen (light, axe, bow) with the rest remaining under the command of Hrabì Dalibor z Erce.

[appleciders]

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to King Heinrich of Germany
My King, while I have unfortunately been unable to assist your vital endeavor in Friesland directly, I hope that my gesture in hiring away a number of Vikings from pagan causes to my Christian one will help your plans in some fashion, however slight.

My plans of this year include the founding of a monastery in Regensburg, which I hope will help to improve Germany beyond the cultural backwater which it has been relegated to in recent years. When considering the nessecary preparations, however, it occurred to me that while building a monastery might be a relatively simple task, populating it might not. It would seem to be a slow process to train enough monks to successfully manage a monastery, so I come to you for assistance: might you consider allowing a transfer of a number of monks from your monastery at Hamburg to my new one at Regensburg? I hope that your Abbot will see this as an opportunity to allow young and talented administrators and scholars a chance to put their learnings to use before a position would naturally open for them in Hamburg, and as a chance to expand Christ's domain over Germany.

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Eberhard III of Franconia
My brother, you have my profound thanks for the addition of your troops to the campaign to liberate Carinthia from the heathen. I come to you asking another favor that I hope will be easily granted; my current plans include the construction of a monastery at Regensburg, and I come to you asking your assistance in populating it with young, vigorous monks from the monastery in your domains in Mainz who might prefer to found a new order in Regensburg, where they might be able to utilize their talents and skills sooner than if they were to wait for death to open a position for them in Mainz. I urge you to grant me this favor and further Christ's interests in Germany.

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Erchanger of Swabia
My brother, I thank you sincerely for your unflinching support of my campaign against the Magyar heathen, and now come to you for help in a less secular capacity. I am building a monastery at Regensburg, and I wish to bring in a number of monks from established monasteries like the one in your domains in Lindau. I ask that you speak to your Abbot about allowing a number of young, vigorous monks who show particular aptitude in scholarly, relgious, or administerial pursuits to transfer to the new monastery at Regensburg, where they might be given a chance to prosper, rather than languish behind their elders. I appreciate your consideration of this vital manner.

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Archbishop Pilgrim of Salzburg
My friend, while a cathedral would appear to be out of reach for this year, I do plan to build a monastery at Regensburg, to further glorify God and encourage both secular and religious learning in Bavaria. I have contacted the secular authorities in Swabia, Saxony, and Franconia about the transfer of a number of monks from their long-established monasteries to help expedite the process of building a self-sustaining community of monks; might you contact their Abbots and any other Abbots who you might believe to be sympathetic to this cause? I would also appreciate any Church funds that can be directed towards the building of this monastery, to help ensure its speedy completion and solid construction.

[Cyclotron]

Archbishop Pilgrim of Salzburg to Duke Arnulf of Bavaria

I hope that your plans for the cathedral are not delayed indefinitely; I believe it is a most excellent project, one to reconcile your soul with God and his Church, and thus not something to be delayed - lest your life end without gaining God's favor! I understand, however, your other needs at present, and I will support the founding of a monastery at Regensburg.

I know of several promising brothers who would make loyal and scholarly abbots. If your Lordship allows me to make their selection, I will agree to pay some part of the price for its construction, if your Lordship truly requires our assistance.

[foolish_icarus]

Eberhard to Arnulf :

Certainly! In addition, I have several talented men, one from Byzantium, who may be able to help with your construction projects if things ever quiet down.

[appleciders]

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Eberhard III of Franconia
I thank you, brother, for your assistance. Who is this talented man from Byzantium? What are his credentials? I am most intrigued.


OOC: Cyc, why would Archbishop Pilgrim form his offer to find an abbot as a bargaining point, rather than a statement? What does he stand to gain from selecting the abbot? Is selecting and appointing an abbot actually my duty as Duke? I had assumed the Church would oversee such matters without seriously consulting me.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by appleciders
OOC: Cyc, why would Archbishop Pilgrim form his offer to find an abbot as a bargaining point, rather than a statement? What does he stand to gain from selecting the abbot? Is selecting and appointing an abbot actually my duty as Duke? I had assumed the Church would oversee such matters without seriously consulting me.

Check out the King's titles:

Henricius I, by the Grace of God King of Germany, Prince-Elector and Duke of Saxony, Margrave of Thuringia, Count of Ringelheim and the Eichsfeld, Lay Abbot of Hersfeld.

Abbeys and monasteries can control considerable amounts of land, and can be as productive and valuable as a barony. In fact, many times, abbots were not churchmen at all, but lay abbots that were basically indistinguishable from barons. Lords would often place trusted vassals into positions of power in abbeys, bishoprics, and other ecclesiastical offices to reward them, in the same way that they would reward other knights with a barony. The Archbishop is informing you, albeit obliquely, that he wishes the monastery to be ecclesiastically controlled rather than under lay control.

At this point in history, the church is not really a self-governing structure; bishops, abbots, and so on are invested by a secular lord, not the church hierarchy. Thus, it is not uncommon - in fact, very common - to find rather unpious men in church positions, because they are assigned there as a secular reward, not as a recognition of service to God. The same is true all the way up the line, to the Pope himself; popes of this time are often no more interested in theology than the average king.

Consider these words, uttered by King Henry I of England in the early 12th century, to the monks of Winchester:

I order you to hold a free election [for abbot], but nevertheless I forbid you to elect anyone except Richard, my clerk, the archdeacon of Poitiers.

[appleciders]

Alright, then, so if Micha and Bipolarbear (or you, if BP doesn't show up) want to help, there will be no trouble because they're also the abbots of their monasteries. And am I understanding correctly that if I wanted to be really obnoxious, I could install myself as the abbot?

And just out of curiousity, is there any real backstory on Archbishop Pilgrim, or is he an invention of yours? If you did invent him, what's his history?

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by appleciders
And am I understanding correctly that if I wanted to be really obnoxious, I could install myself as the abbot?

Yes, you could. The abbeys that Micha and BP are abbots of, however, are part of their demesnes, not church-held land. They also aren't terribly important in terms of scholarship or pilgrimage; they are mostly just baronies with a few monks on the premises.

If you plan on building an abbey and a cathedral of significant means and importance, it's probable that you'll have to shell out some land to the church; the land for these things doesn't just appear out of nowhere, and communities of monks and priests need agricultural acreage to support themselves. You could just build them on your own demesne, but your demesne is generally run as a profit-making enterprise, not a religious retreat, and if you want a monastery that will actually contribute to intellectual and religious life, you're better off keeping it under independent ecclesiastical control.

And just out of curiousity, is there any real backstory on Archbishop Pilgrim, or is he an invention of yours? If you did invent him, what's his history?

He is a real person who was Archbishop of Salzburg at this time, but to my knowledge nothing else is known about him besides his name.

As with most high religious officials of the time, Pilgrim was probably a younger nobleman's son who, knowing he would not inherit his father's land, chose to seek his fortune in a church or monastery instead. In 907 at the Battle of Pressburg, the Magyars utterly smashed the Bavarians and killed your father (Luitpold) and the previous Archbishop of Salzburg (Dietmar). Upon your coronation as the new Duke, you selected Pilgrim as someone you thought was suitably loyal as well as militaristically inclined, knowing full well that the Magyars were going to be trouble. Pilgrim is something of a warrior-archbishop; piety was really not a big concern of yours back in 907. Unfortunately, your subsequent decision to plunder the church's holdings for your own use caused something of a rift between you and the Archbishop.

So far in this NES, I have abstracted archbishoprics and lower offices, as I felt the added complexity of selecting them would be uneccessary. If you want to have more control over the process, however, I could allow archbishop selections to be done in a similar way to how we select generals now.

[Cyclotron]

Currently, Germany has only two Archbishoprics. This is a fairly low number for so much territory, but Germany has never been terribly important, populous, or Christian before, and only since fairly recently (8th century) has Germany had any archbishops at all.

The Archbishopric of Mainz, in Franconia, is held by Archbishop Herigar, who has been in office since 913.

The Archbishopric of Salzburg, in Bavaria, is held by Archbishop Pilgrim, who has been in office since 907.

The Archbishop of Salzburg has the technically higher honor; its occupant is the chief bishop of the Germans, though this doesn't give him power over the territory presided over by the Archbishop of Mainz. It just means he's a bit more prestigious and gets to dress up like a cardinal.

The Archbishop of Mainz presides over Franconia and Swabia. The Archbishop of Salzburg presides over Bavaria and Carinthia. By mutual agreement, the Archbishop of Salzburg also administers the church in Bohemia currently, while Meissen is controlled from Mainz.

Saxony is actually under the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of the Archbishop of Cologne, which is in Lotharingia. This Archbishop also administers Lotharingia itself, as well as Friesland. The Archbishops of Mainz and Cologne are not friends, as they are constantly bickering over control of parishes in Saxony, and the Archbishop of Cologne claims he should have jurisdiction for Meissen because it's under Saxon control. While the Archbishop of Cologne is something of a foreigner, the Saxons absolutely reviled the last Archbishop of Mainz and probably prefer Cologne's dominion to that of Mainz.

New bishoprics and archbishoprics can only be created by the Pope.

[appleciders]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
So far in this NES, I have abstracted archbishoprics and lower offices, as I felt the added complexity of selecting them would be uneccessary. If you want to have more control over the process, however, I could allow archbishop selections to be done in a similar way to how we select generals now.

Well... I suppose I wouldn't mind being able to select the archbishop if that situation came up, but in general, I think the ecclesiastical control in this NES is about right. If Pilgrim dies, I wouldn't mind choosing his replacement, but don't be killing him off just to put that situation up.

Nice background, too!

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Archbishop Pilgrim of Salzburg
I will of course allow the Church to install the right man as abbot, given your word that this monastery will aim to provide religious and scholarly excellence, not merely a profit-making enterprise. I also appreciate any funds that you can donate towards the construction of the monastery.

[appleciders]

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Pope John X
Holy Father, I bear tidings of greatest joy: One of the Holy Nails, lost by Emperor Berengar to the Magyar Heathens, has been recovered! I am currently in possession of this Nail, and am prepared to bring this great treasure to Rome to claim the reward you promised.

[Cyclotron]

Pope John X to Duke Arnulf of Bavaria
This is good news indeed, my son, for I had begun to think that the Magyars had escaped forever with our dear relics! I shall await your arrival or that of your emissary in Rome, that it may be properly consecrated. At that point I will bestow upon you a half share of the reward I have promised, as its twin is yet missing.

The road to Rome is not the safest one in these days, and whether it is your emissary or your person that comes hither, I would recommend travelling with stalwart armsmen on the journey south.

[appleciders]

I was afraid of that... The Emperor's going to try to take the Nail from me, isn't he? Or failing that, he'll take the reward away.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by appleciders
I was afraid of that... The Emperor's going to try to take the Nail from me, isn't he? Or failing that, he'll take the reward away.

It's possible. If he did, it would amount to a grave insult to the King of Germany, and could be a pretext for war.

[Micha]

Originally posted by appleciders
I was afraid of that... The Emperor's going to try to take the Nail from me, isn't he? Or failing that, he'll take the reward away.

King Heinrich of Germany to Duke Arnulf of Bavaria

Fear not, my friend, for Berengar does not dare to insult us any longer. His reign is built on sand, and it´s raining constantly since several years.

About your request concerning the abbey: Since two years I have worked on a plan for a missionary school myself, to train men of god who will help spreading the word of our Lord to the heathens in Meissen. So there are two possibilities I can foresee: One is that I will create one on my own out of my rich demesne, in which case I´d not be able to spare any monks to your endeavour. The second one is that your abbey will become this missionary school. In that case I´d wbe willing to assist you with materials, money and monks while I´d need a formal and binding agreement about the institution and its usage for my goals.

What is your opinion about that?