HRE NES

[bipolarbear]

From Erchanger "The Christ Child" to all interested parties excluding the vile Maygars.

Hello my glorious comrades! Great weather we've been having recently eh? It is times like this that a question begins to weigh heavily upon my sun blessed soul. Who would be interested in trading butter or fish? I have butter and fish that I would love to get off of my hands and into yours, for the right price of course.

[Cyclotron]

Duke Tomislav of Croatia to King Conrad of Germany

I am deeply distressed and displeased with your decision to support the Bulgarian tyrant and usurper against the Emperor and his regent. Though I do not wish to war against Germany, you are advised to keep your ill-considered allegiance to words alone; should you interfere militarily on behalf of the Bulgarians, in any regard, I will not hesitate in treating Germany as an enemy.

Bulgaria threatens us as assuredly as it threatens Constantinople, and you need not doubt our intent to match their aggression in Serbia with sharp steel. We are not the aggressors in this war; if God wishes to intervene to stop the bloodshed, He must tell Simeon not to march against us, for we fight for the freedom of our homeland.

[appleciders]

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to King Conrad of Germany
I must admit confusion at your orders regarding the Rhine Levy. Are you sending them east to assist in the liberation of Bohemia? Your orders imply but never state this. If it were to be deemed... advisable... I might ensure that Landgraf Cristianus von Mellrichstadt is placed on the front lines with the heavy infantry to break charges, a most dangerous position.

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Erchanger of Swabia
I must say, I have been eyeing those Freislander goods of yours for quite some time. Might we say 200 d. of fine Italian cloth in exchange for 100 d. each of butter and fish? I also note with disappointment that if you possessed a fine port on the Danube, we might gain much greater profits from this trade and others already in place.

[Cyclotron]

Duke Tomislav of Croatia to Duke Arnulf of Bavaria
Your King's alliance with the Bulgarians has made our relationship tenuous. While I have no ill will towards you or your people, I intend to cancel our proposed exchange of weapons and goods unless you, at the very least, swear your neutrality and thus your permanent opposition to giving military assistance or aid to the Bulgarians. It would be unseemly of me to be trading with a declared ally of my bitter foe.

[appleciders]

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Tomislav of Croatia
I have no intention of entering this contest over the Imperial throne of Byzantium. My concerns are much closer to home, and I will not be committing any military force or aid to either yourself, Bulgaria or Byzantium, especially not with the heathen Magyars pressing at my gates. I will remain neutral in this contest.

OOC: Cyc, after reading some relavent Wikipedia articles, I wanted to question this bit of my stat block:

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Relations: Grandson of Duke Burchard of Swabia (distaff, deceased)
Current Heir: Count Eberhard of Bavaria (father-in-law)

If I've read Wikipedia correctly, King Conrad is my father-in-law, and Eberhard is my son. Or am I mixing up my Eberhards? The reusing of names.... it's worse than the Wars of the Roses.

[Cyclotron]

If I've read Wikipedia correctly, King Conrad is my father-in-law, and Eberhard is my son. Or am I mixing up my Eberhards? The reusing of names.... it's worse than the Wars of the Roses.

I know the bit about Conrad already, as you'll see under Conrad's entry:

Relations: Grandson of Emperor Arnulf of Carinthia (distaff, deceased), Stepfather of Duke Arnulf “the Bad” of Bavaria

He is, of course, not Arnulf's natural father, and indeed Arnulf might resent him for taking his mother's hand for the sake of political leverage - or then again, he might not.

As far as Eberhard, the authorities seem to be unclear as to whether Eberhard is Arnulf's brother or son, or whether there were really two Eberhards. Even wikipedia shows this disagreement, seen here in the article on Arnulf's father Luitpold:

Luitpold had two sons by her, however: Arnulf the Bad and Eberhard, both later dukes of Bavaria. From his descendants titles, Luitpold is often called a duke of Bavaria or margrave of Bavaria, the latter title being more accurate to his actual status.

As it is confusing, I chose to make Eberhard Arnulf's brother, which makes successions more problematic for you and more entertaining for us all.

[appleciders]

I know Foolish is my father (and have commented on that one, waaaaaay back in the beginning of the thread to no small degree of hilarity) and I realize that Eberhard may be either my brother or son, but I can't find any source that suggests that Eberhard is my father-in-law; that's supposed to be Conrad. That was my little nitpick.

[Cyclotron]

Oh, durr. My only explanation/excuse is that I meant to say that Conrad was the father-in-law, but somehow mixed that up with the heir. It will be amended by the next update. It should read "brother," and there should be a separate entry under "relations" that says Conrad is Anrulf's stepfather.

EDIT: By the way, I will look into feudal law with regards to whether Judith being married to another noble would pass the Duchy to them or whether it would go to Arnulf's brother. I don't think that the Duchies are strictly patrilineal; historically, the King had to approve the transition of power, and it likely went with whoever was deemed "most legitimate." What may end up happening is a quarrel between Eberhard and your future son-in-law over the Duchy, unless the son-in-law is so far away that he has no opportunity to challenge Eberhard for the Ducal seat. Choices abound... and Judith is already old enough to be betrothed to another.

[Cyclotron]

Brother Hildebrand, legal and ecclesiastical authority, to all German Dukes

My good Lords, I have been asked by my abbot to refresh you on the customs of succession in our fair land. I hope that this explanation will avoid future bloodshed and quarrel between noble sons and daughters of Germany.

Presently, our Kingdom operates on what you might call fedual primogeniture. In other words, inheritance passes to the eldest son. Observe this fictional example, in which "Duke Otto" has children listed in order of age, from eldest to youngest.

Duke Otto
Children:
1) Hildegarde (female)
2) Gisfried
3) Isolde (female)
4) Rubert

Were Duke Otto to die, Gisfried would become Duke. Hildegarde is older, but also a woman, so she's right out, as women are the sinful sex that God has rightfully put into second place!

Here's where it gets tricky. Should Gisfried die, Rubert is not the next in line. Succession stays "in line" until the line is exhausted. Let's say Gisfried has a son and a daughter. His son is the next in line to become Duke. If his son dies, however, and has no children, the title actually passes to Gisfried's daughter. For the succession to "jump up" a level to the children of Otto, Gisfried's line would have to be totally exhausted of heirs both male and female. Only then will Rubert inherit.

Gisfried's daughter, however (let's call her Hedwiga) cannot reign as Duchess. A German Duke is foremost a war leader and protector, and women just aren't cut out for that. It isn't likely the barons would support her as a candidate; they would probably abandon her and support Rubert in a coup.

Technically speaking, all heirs to Duchies must be approved by the King. If the King doesn't approve Hedwiga's succession, the title moves on to Rubert.

Hedwiga, however, could be married to a worthy noble, in which case the King would have to decide between choosing the son-in-law (Hedwiga's husband) and the brother (Rubert). Hedwiga's husband (let's call him Eginolf) would have a stronger claim, and if the King chose Rubert over him, he might invade or rebel to claim his right. In the end, as with all things, the stronger party will likely prevail regardless of the law.

If the succession ends up with Rubert, and his line is exhausted (he dies without children), the title goes to Hildegarde. If she has male heirs, the eldest recieves the title; otherwise, her husband receives it, and if the husband is dead it goes to her daughters and their husbands.

I hope this has cleared some issues up, my Lords. God's favor to you all!

[appleciders]

Quite similar to the English royal system; the children of the most recently crowned king have precedence over that king's brothers, regardless of age. So my daughter Judith's theoretical husband would become my heir. Since Judith is a little young to actually be married, would her betrothed become my heir, or would Eberhard remain my heir until the marriage actually took place? Legally, I mean; I realize the actual effect would merely be chaos.

Also- not questioning how this NES should play out, but merely historically (according to Wikipedia)- Eberhard is my son, and I have a brother Berthold who (historically) took over as Duke after Eberhard was banished a year or two into his reign. Finally, my wife Judith's father is Count Eberhard of Sülichgau, so I think I'm seeing where the confusion stemmed from.

Anywho, this has definately caught my attention, so I'm going to add a bit in my orders asking for information about Eberhard and his command skills.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by appleciders
Also- not questioning how this NES should play out, but merely historically (according to Wikipedia)- Eberhard is my son, and I have a brother Berthold who (historically) took over as Duke after Eberhard was banished a year or two into his reign. Finally, my wife Judith's father is Count Eberhard of Sülichgau, so I think I'm seeing where the confusion stemmed from.

My research differs from your research. At this point it doesn't matter to me what is historic or not - I've stated how things are and that's the way they'll be. Eberhard, for the purposes of this NES, is Arnulf's brother, and Arnulf has only one child, who is Judith.

And I agree that there are far too many Eberhards. It's really not even that cool of a name, guys!

So my daughter Judith's theoretical husband would become my heir. Since Judith is a little young to actually be married, would her betrothed become my heir, or would Eberhard remain my heir until the marriage actually took place? Legally, I mean; I realize the actual effect would merely be chaos.

Legally, it's a bit misty. You can't be succeeded by someone who is not yet in your family, but if they are bethrothed then clearly that person will be. The best solution, legally speaking, would be to have Eberhard as regent until the marriage, but Eberhard may or may not give up power when the marriage takes place.

[bipolarbear]

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Erchanger of Swabia
I must say, I have been eyeing those Freislander goods of yours for quite some time. Might we say 200 d. of fine Italian cloth in exchange for 100 d. each of butter and fish? I also note with disappointment that if you possessed a fine port on the Danube, we might gain much greater profits from this trade and others already in place.

From the Desk of Komissar Deepak Chopra

Glory to the Empire! Trading shall begin! Do not fret over what does not exist comrade. What is is is. And what isn't simply isn't, so please do not work against the forces of reality as they are constant, unreliable, and constantly unrelaible. Instead I would advise you to try to relax and accept the reality that you see. While one man could cover the earth in leather so he might never step upon a thorn, he could much more easily coat his feet in leather and walk without discomfort.

[foolish_icarus]

King Conrad to Duke Heinrich :

What forces do you intend to commit to the Magyar campaign?

[Micha]

Originally posted by Micha
Duke Heinrich of Saxony to King Conrad of Germany

My liege, bad news I have to tell you. The Wends, stubborn and stupid as they are, refuse to admit defeat. The March of Meissen will not be under firm German-Catholic rule until the remaining strongholds of Leipzig and Dresden have been conquered.
As the simple folks are getting restless already, the campaign will need to come to a quick end. I can foresee Saxon troops march with their German brethren in two, maybe three years. I know this is disappointing to you, but it is my conviction that our Lord has his plans with each of us which we have to follow. Rest assured that both my troops and your share of the March´s riches will reach you, and by the grace of god will reach you soon.

Loyally yours, your servant Duke Heinrich of Saxony.

Originally posted by foolish_icarus
King Conrad to Duke Heinrich :

May God bless your endeavors. I will certainly not make all your efforts for naught by taking you away from them prematurely.

[foolish_icarus]

damnit, I'm sorry. I meant that message to go to Duke Erchanger. You Germans and your silly names