HRE NES - Development

[Micha]

Saxons for me, please! It´s a must (I´m Saxon in RL)

[foolish_icarus]

to hell with pre-choosing research! I'll be Franconia, and when I go and learn what sorts of dire predicaments I've chosen for myself, DO NOT let me change my mind

[Tassadar500]

Swabia

[foolish_icarus]

I just read an overview of the relevant history. Ouch
I've got my work cut out for me

[Cyclotron]

Yes, maybe you can change the historical fact that your king was a total failure...

EDIT: And you'll need somebody to play Arnulf, the initial foil to King Conrad and generally mean guy. Maybe Micha can help me out with this - I believe his german epithet was 'der Böse,' which means not so much 'bad' as 'evil' or something along those lines. At any rate, he'll have his work cut out for him too, though Bavaria has distinct advantages as well.

[bipolarbear]

This NES looks really col Cyc. It'll be fun to watch how it progresses. I really like all of the work that you have put into it.

[Micha]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
EDIT: And you'll need somebody to play Arnulf, the initial foil to King Conrad and generally mean guy. Maybe Micha can help me out with this - I believe his german epithet was 'der Böse,' which means not so much 'bad' as 'evil' or something along those lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnulf_I_of_Bavaria

Yes, "der Böse" means he was evil... In the eternal words of Steve Oedekerk: "It is evil! It is so evil! It is a bad bad plan that will hurt many people that are good. I think it´s great, cause it´s so bad."

Well, Arnulf was called "the Evil" because he took all the church land and gave it to his vassals. However, this was neccessary to fund the reorganization of the army after it got almost annihilated in the Battle of Pressburg against the Magyars. After that reorganization he managed to expell the Magyars from Bavarian soil and forced them to sign a treaty of non-aggression. So in fact he was only evil in the sense of not putting the church above the state.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Micha
Well, Arnulf was called "the Evil" because he took all the church land and gave it to his vassals. However, this was neccessary to fund the reorganization of the army after it got almost annihilated in the Battle of Pressburg against the Magyars. After that reorganization he managed to expell the Magyars from Bavarian soil and forced them to sign a treaty of non-aggression. So in fact he was only evil in the sense of not putting the church above the state.

True - though his refusal to recognize his King and his willingness to basically sell out the other Duchies to the Magyars in return for the safety of his holdings isn't exactly "good" either

You'll notice that Arnulf starts out with a pretty good budget surplus, but a small reserve treasury and very few troops, most of them having been wiped out (along with a sizeable number of vassals) at Pressburg. Bavaria probably has the most strategic options when the game starts - they have that big surplus to spend - but atrocious diplomatic relations; 'der Böse' has no allies and many enemies at the start of the game, and he can't readily turn to the church for help.

And bipolarbear, Arnulf's space is still open if you'd like to play Bavaria, when the game starts in a month or so. Feel free to join in.

Also, it's very likely that new Duchies will be created fairly early on in the game, so you'll still have an opportunity later if you can't play when it starts.

[appleciders]

I'm in. Deepest apologies about the Dark Ages NES, but it's become pretty clear that I do not have the time nessecary to mod. I'll sign up tentatively for Bavaria, then, although I recognize Bipolarbear was here first and has precedence, if he wants Bavaria.

[appleciders]

After having read this proposal thoroughly, here's my reactions:

Have you put any of this information into a spreadsheet? One of my biggest mistakes in the Dark Ages NES and the Gnome NES before that was not setting any of that up in spreadsheets, so that I could simply enter new values and see the effects.

I love the system of nobles, since it really provides a sense of ruling families, and I hope will allow for a bunch of political intrigue.

The generals are also an interesting factor- I like the idea, but I don't believe we should be entirely blind in selecting them- there should be some way to gauge a general's effectiveness, even if it may be vague before he's been thoroughly tested.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by appleciders
I'm in. Deepest apologies about the Dark Ages NES, but it's become pretty clear that I do not have the time nessecary to mod. I'll sign up tentatively for Bavaria, then, although I recognize Bipolarbear was here first and has precedence, if he wants Bavaria.

No problem. It's pretty likely that a fifth Duchy will open up not long after the start of the game, so I should be able to accomodate everyone here.

Have you put any of this information into a spreadsheet? One of my biggest mistakes in the Dark Ages NES and the Gnome NES before that was not setting any of that up in spreadsheets, so that I could simply enter new values and see the effects.

I'm not very acquainted with spreadsheet programs, but I have all the formulae for calculating income, maintainence, etc. all written. I'll look into setting up something in excel.

I love the system of nobles, since it really provides a sense of ruling families, and I hope will allow for a bunch of political intrigue.

I hope so too. What I'm unsure of is what happens if, say, a noble overthrows the Duke - does the Duke's player just lose, and exit the game, or does he take over as the new ruler?

The generals are also an interesting factor- I like the idea, but I don't believe we should be entirely blind in selecting them- there should be some way to gauge a general's effectiveness, even if it may be vague before he's been thoroughly tested.

Yes, that was pointed out, and I'll give a description of the general that should hint at some of these characteristics. Some may be deceptive, though - someone who is constantly professing their loyalty could be truly loyal, or he could be just covering up his treachery. My hope is that players won't just keep throwing away generals until they get one they think is "perfect;" Dukes had to make do with what was available, and only the real traitors and incompetants were dismissed like that.

[appleciders]

Well, we'll probably settle for an average general if we get a lot of incompetant ones.

As to dukes being overthrown, well, I may need to overthrow myself to regain some confidence from my people, but more on that later. If I know Bipolarbear, he's probably planning to jump in as a fifth duchy at some point.

[Micha]

Originally posted by appleciders
If I know Bipolarbear, he's probably planning to jump in as a fifth duchy at some point.

And I guess I know what his duke is called...

Anyway, I can´t wait to see this get off the ground. Hopwfully it won´t die too soon, as it seems to be a lot work for the mod.

[Cyclotron]

Well, as I said, some waiting is still in order. I will post the NES thread probably in the first week of January, get a roll call, and if we have 4 players proceed. As for timing, I don't like the idea of certain amounts of real time equating to game time - the turns will be years, and I will attempt to update once a week, probably on the weekends. Inevitably, some things will come up along the way both for you and me, so don't hold me to that - but that is the goal.

On an unrelated side note, someday I want to play a NES centered on the Byzantine Empire. The primary reason is that you could call it "ByzNES," which is hilarious.

[Tassadar500]

I have an interesting idea for rebellions. If a duke is kicked out by a noble, the player who controls the Duchy can choose to play as the rebel duke, trying to take back the throne, asking for help with another duchy, or trying to set up a new, weak duchy. The only reason you would do this is if you had either great favour with the Church, an ally that could help quickly, or a large group of loyal soldiers and civilians. If a player decided not to continue as the renegade Duke, or dies when he's trying to regain power, he loses, and is kicked out of the game until a new spot opens up/four turns.