Advanced Hellenistic Era NES - Part 2

[1889]

King Aberdal of Carthage

You honor me with such an invitation. I am sure the work of Carthaginian craftsmen is a wonder to behold. A journey of such distance can not be undertaken at this time, but I hope that I may accept your graciuos offer in the future.

King Maeon of Lydia

[foolish_icarus]

The following are the items we desire to import. We will trade resources or cash for any of the following:

copper, gems, cattle, furs, dyes, oil, ivory, spices, silk, incense, flax, glasswares, tea, amber, tin


The following are the items we have available to trade. We have enough fish and wine to trade with two countries, the other resources we only have enough of to trade with one country. Listed with each item are the countries, as near as we could tell, who could benefit from given item.

we have

fish, Sparta, Lydia, Rome, bosporan Greeks, (2 nations)

marble, Persia, Sparta, Bosporan Greeks

horses, Lydia, Rome, Egypt, Bosporan Greeks,

silver, Sparta, Lydia, Rome, Egypt, Bosporan Greeks,

gold, Sparta, Lydia, Rome, Egypt, bosporan Greeks

honey, Persia, Lydia, Rome, Egypt, Bosporan Greeks

wine, Persia, Sparta, Lydia, (2 nations)

fabrics, Sparta, Bosporan Greeks



The following are the items we desire to import. We will trade resources or cash for any of the following:

copper, Persia

gems, Persia

cattle, hmmm. Persia

furs, Persia, Bosporan Greeks.

dyes, and Persia

oil, just Persia

spices, yep, Persia

silk, could it be…Persia

glasswares, the winner is—Persia!

tea, Persia. Oh what a surprise.

blood of newborn infants, Persia. Again.

uranium, mighty Persia.

lima beans, (seeing a pattern yet??!!) Persia

moose (that’s plural, wiseass), Persia.

energizer batteries, Target. Ha! Eat that Persian pigdogs! Your monopoly is broken! I shall dance in proletarian joy!

Macedonia to Athens :

Here is why 20 talents are fair. When you joined us, all the lands then under your dominion increased the net revenues to our coffers by 20 talents/turn. We released these funds back to you consistently. You used all of them, every time, to improve the city of Athens but not the other considerable lands these funds were supposed to cover. We spent funds to provide for and improve these other lands, and we continued to spend money on Athens. In recognition of the many fine intellectual and cultural contributions Athens provides, we will continue to release 20 talents/turn to Athens alone (provided they are spent) and provide for the other lands with additional funds. But please do not ask us to spend additional money on Athens right now. Perhaps later, when we might have money to splurge, we will not be so sparing, but currently our treasury requires careful rationing.


Macedonia to Rome :

Oh, the king is feeling much better now. We are glad we all were able to work this out. Senatus populesque Romanum bene diu vivant.


Macedonia to Egypt :

5 talents/turn salt for 5 talents/turn paper, sounds good.


trade route see above.

[appleciders]

Egypt to Macedonia: We'll begin importing horses at 4 talents\turn.

[foolish_icarus]

done.

[Micha]

Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
Now Micha, Hannibal had only two War Elephants when he was in Italy. I guess they did quite a lot of damage, so why did an army of 100 War Elephants do so little? Even in Lord of the Rings, there were only about 10 Mumakil, the Haradrim term for War Elephants. Maybe there should be less War Elephants, and make them cost many more talents?

You are right, I have thought about reducing their numbers as well.

Now to explain the battle result:
The Pharao of Egypt has provided a detailed source on anti-elephant warfare, after which he sent an even more detailed order of battle for his troops. His tactical plans, PMed to me, covered almost every possible situation and thus made me put the Egyptians in a favourable position.
He spent a fair portion of his budget on the pigkeeper brigade and explained where it has to be positioned and when it was to be used.
The Carthaginians had two negative modifiers and one positive:
* The army marched several months through the desert without proper care for supplies
* The elephants encountered the pigs for the very first time
* The leader is a great general, managing to almost eradicate the Egyptians despite the loss of his main charge force

As I have stated numerous times before, battle results may be heavily influenced by orders and story. Especially since the tactics involved are actually taken from the later Roman standard battleplans.

Pigs will be less effective when they are expected. So this was, at least for Egypt-Carthage, a one time situation.

On a side note, the "oliphants" in LotR were some thirty meters tall (90 feet?) and thus make only for a very very weird comparison with actual elephants

Now for the trade:
Do you guys feel it would be better to introduce actual amounts of ressources?
This would require:
* National needs per ressource
* Amounts added to the ressources already given
* many more ressources added, since those already there only resemble deposals that can supply the entire population
* Fractal calculation of ressource effects on efficiency
* more investigations about the actual ressource deposals at that time
While it would allow for:
* Much improved trade system, since with money+amount it´s possible to determine who´s going to drive a bargain
* Possibility to be a merchant nation, buying stocks from original suppliers in large quantities and then selling them to other nations in small bits for a good profit
* Much better historical correctness, as most sites grew grain and many ports produced fish
* Having ressources that one shouldn´t sell because they just barely supply the own population...
* Ability to hamper an enemie´s trade and efficiency by cutting him off a supply, although he has the same ressource at another site, too (Persia, Rome and Carthage have several ressources on multiple places, so right now it´s very hard to cut them off that supply)

Update will start once Laurentius of Rome gets his orders in

[laurentius]

Rome to Lydia

Greetings! Rome wishes peaceful and prosperous reign for King Maeon. Keep in touch

Yours,

SPQR

[Micha]

Originally posted by 1889
Lydia seems like a better place to start.

Give me a little help with the rules. I still haven't read them all yet.

Cash flow 38 + treasury 40 = 78 tallents to spend this turn

• 30 tallents - 10 shinny new Trireams
• 10 tallents - 700 motivated and disciplined swordsmen to guard the palace
• 19 tallents - overhaul the tax system
• 19 tallents - improve military discipline

I´m afraid you lack the iron needed to train swordsmen...

Bosporian Greek to Lydia
Greetings, king Maeon! We have heard the old king has died of an illness?
We´d like to propose a trade deal to you:
Our iron mines provide enough of a surplus to ship amounts worth of 6 talents a turn to Lydia! What do you say?

Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
To: Crete, Bosporian Greeks
From: Carthage

Are you interested in any of our resources?

Trades proposed to Carthage by the various states:
* Sparta importing salt at 3 talents/turn
* Sparta importing wine at 3 talents/turn
* Bosporian Greeks importing oil at 2 talents/turn

Trades proposed to Macedonia by the various states:
* Bosporian Greeks importing horses at 5 talents/turn
* Bosporian Greeks importing fish at 7 talents/turn

[Micha]

Ok, going through the endless Spam fields that are supposed to be called thread, I have gathered information about all proposed/accepted/rejected trade deals so far.

44 trade routes have been proposed.
5 of them have been rejected.
15 of them have been ironed out (accepted with amounts)

That leaves 24 still being discussed!!!

Please confirm or reject the trade, add value where needed!
[exporting country (trade good) - importing country (talents paid)]

EDITED FOR UPDATE

ROME
Rome (fabrics) - Egypt (4)
Rome (iron) - Persia ( ? )
Persia (tea) - Rome ( ? )
Egypt (paper) - Rome (4)

Macedonia
Macedonia (wine) - Lydia (4)
Macedonia (fish) - Lydia (9)
Macedonia (horses) - Bosporian Greek (5)
Macedonia (fish) - Bosporian Greek (7)
Macedonia (wine) - Egypt ( ? )
Persia (copper) - Macedonia (6)
Persia (furs) - Macedonia (5)
Persia (spices) - Macedonia (10)

Egypt
Egypt (paper) - Bosporian Greek ( 3 )
Egypt (grain) - Persia (10)
Egypt (paper) - Persia ( ? )
Egypt (paper) - Rome (4)
Macedonia (wine) - Egypt ( ? )
Persia (cattle) - Egypt (10)
Rome (fabrics) - Egypt (4)

Lydia
Macedonia (wine) - Lydia (4)
Macedonia (fish) - Lydia (9)
Bosporian Greek (iron) - Lydia (6)

Persia
Persia (cattle) - Egypt (10)
Persia (copper) - Macedonia (6)
Persia (furs) - Macedonia (5)
Persia (spices) - Macedonia (10)
Persia (tea) - Rome ( ? )
Egypt (paper) - Persia ( ? )
Egypt (grain) - Persia (10)
Rome (iron) - Persia ( ? )

[NPC answers]
Macedonia (horses) - Bosporian Greek (5) confirmed
Macedonia (fish) - Bosporian Greek (7) confirmed
Egypt (paper) - Bosporian Greek (3) confirmed
Bosporian Greek (iron) - Lydia (6) confirmed

Already confirmed are the following trades:
Rome (iron) - Egypt (8)
Rome (iron) - Sparta (6)
Rome (fabrics) - Carthage (4)
Rome (iron) - Carthage (8)
Carthage (wine) - Rome (4)
Carthage (salt) - Rome (4)
Carthage (oil) - Bosporian Greek (2)
Carthage (salt) - Sparta (3)
Carthage (wine) - Sparta (3)
Egypt (paper) - Macedonia (5)
Egypt (paper) - Crete (4)
Egypt (grain) - Rome (8)
Egypt (paper) - Lydia (4)
Macedonia (salt) - Egypt (5)
Macedonia (horses) - Egypt (4)
Lydia (pottery) - Egypt (4)
Lydia (pottery) - Carthage (7)
Bosporian Greek (furs) - Egypt (4)
Bosporian Greek (timber) - Egypt (4)
Sparta (honey) - Carthage (5)
Crete (marble) - Egypt (5)
Magna Graecia (wine) - Egypt (4)

Trades that aren´t confirmed WITH VALUE by both sides won´t come into effect!

[laurentius]

ROME
Rome (fabrics) - Egypt (4)
Rome (iron) - Persia ( 4 )
Rome (fabrics) - Carthage ( 4 )
Rome (iron) - Carthage ( 8 )
Carthage (wine) - Rome ( 4? )
Carthage (salt) - Rome ( 4? )
Persia (tea) - Rome ( 8? )
Egypt (paper) - Rome (4)

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Micha
Now for the trade:
Do you guys feel it would be better to introduce actual amounts of ressources?

I don't.


Egypt is exporting paper to us, and we're exporting salt to them, at 5 talents/turn for both.

[Micha]

So you wish to reject those trades? (at least for this update)

Macedonia (wine) - Lydia (4)
Macedonia (fish) - Lydia (9)
Macedonia (horses) - Bosporian Greek (5)
Macedonia (fish) - Bosporian Greek (7)
Macedonia (wine) - Egypt ( ? )
Persia (copper) - Macedonia (6)
Persia (furs) - Macedonia (5)
Persia (spices) - Macedonia (10)

[Tassadar500]

Rome (fabrics) - Carthage ( 4 )
Rome (iron) - Carthage ( 8 )
Carthage (wine) - Rome ( 4 )
Carthage (salt) - Rome ( 4 )

[Tassadar500]

And, I confirm the NPC trades as well.

[laurentius]

One forgotten traderoute:

Sparta(ambrosia)- Rome (iron)
(?)-(4)

[Tassadar500]

Amber is not even on the map...