The World 1999 XXII - The Second Rebirth

[Giancarlo]

Dateline
AF Troops are getting prepared 20 miles north of Lake Nasser, preparing for an possible offensive. The offensive location is currently unknown at this time and will be revealed once more hateful crimes are committed (excuse the word purges in the last post, I meant exiles of a minority). The Troops are training in a location where conditions are tough to improve combat skills.

To Slav Confederation:
This is your last chance from us, if you don't stop what hateful crimes you are committing we will have to use force to stop it... don't make the mistake many people have back down or face the consquences of an embargo then a possible measure of force.

More News To Come...
[This message has been edited by Giancarlo (edited June 22, 2000).]

[Bolo]

Ukrainian Armed Forces

The following includes listings which breakdown the personnel, organization and the major equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
It is in the order of Army, Naval forces, and Air Force.


Total Armed Forces: 230,000
Excludes strategic forces and Black Sea Fleet. Ukraine's military forces include Commonwealth of Independent States-controlled forces in Ukrainian
territory. The military is currently being restructured to incorporate naval forces from the former Soviet Union. (1992) One infantry battalion is stationed with United Nations peacekeeping forces in Bosnia & Herzegovina.
Annual Military Expenditures (1992) $197,200,000,000
Military Service:
Cumpulsory for males over 18 - 18 months

ARMY
Personnel: 150,000
Organization:
Army headquarters 6 Corps headquarters 1
Artillery corps headquarters 1
Tank divisions (including two training) 4
Motor rifle divisions (including two training) 4
Airborne division 1
Airborne brigades 2
Spetsnaz brigade 1
Artillery divisions 3
Artillery brigades/regiments 8
Antitank brigades 7
Surface-to-surface missile brigades 2
Surface-to-air missile brigades 9
Attack helicopter regiments 7

Major Equipment: (1992)
Main battle tanks 6,300
T-54/-55 2,700
T-64 2,100
T-72 1,000
T-80 300
T-62 200
PT-76 light tanks 180

Armored infantry fighting vehicles: 3,686
BMP-1 1,770
BMP-2 1,250
BRM 350
BMD 310
BMP-3 6

Armored personnel carriers: 8,300
look-alikes 4,500
BTR-50P/-60P/-70/-80/-152 2,200
MT-LB 1,500
BTR-D 100

Intercontinental ballistic missiles: 176
SS-19 Stiletto 130
SS-24 Scalpel 46

Surface-to-surface missiles: 204
Scud 132
FROG/SS-21 72

Attack helicopters
Mil Mi-24 Hind 240

Support helicopters: 353
Mil Mi-8 Hip 280
Mil Mi-6 Hook 60
Mil Mi-24K Hind 8
Mil Mi-24P Hind 5

Transport helicopters: 100
Mil Mi-2 Hoplite 80
Mil Mi-26 Halo 20

Towed artillery 830
152mm D-20 250
122mm D-30 250
152mm 2A36 220
152mm 2A65 110

Self-propelled artillery: 1,165
122mm 2S1 520
152mm 2S3 510
203mm 2S7 100
152mm 2S5 25
152mm 2S19 10

Multiple-rocket launchers: 531
122mm BM-21 310
220mm 9P140 150
300mm 9A52 50
122mm 9P138 18
132mm BM-13 3
120mm 2S9 80

Multiple guns/mortars 470
120mm PM-38 260
120mm 2S12 210

NAVAL FORCES
Organization
Naval aviation bomber regiments 2
Naval aviation fighter regiment 1
Naval infantry division 1
Naval infantry artillery brigade 1

Major Equipment: Naval Vessels (1992)
Unidentified destroyers 7
Unidentified frigates 26
Unidentified tactical submarines 16
Unidentified submarines 2
Unidentified missile cruiser with helicopters 1
Unidentified cruisers 5
Unidentified patrol and coastal combatants 60
Unidentified mine warfare vessels 30
Unidentified amphibious vessels 16
Unidentified support and miscellaneous vessels 140

Major Equipment: Naval Aviation (1992)
Bomber aircraft: 65
Tupolev Tu-26 Backfire 45
Tupolev Tu-16 Badger 10
Tupolev Tu-22 Blinder 10

Sukhoi Su-17 Fitter fighter/ground-attack aircraft 40
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter aircraft 35
Beriev Be-12 Mail antisubmarine warfare aircraft 23

Maritime reconnaissance/electronic warfare aircraft 21
Tupolev Tu-16 Badger 12
Tupolev Tu-22 Blinder 6
Antonov An-12 Cub 2
Ilyushin Il-20 Coot 1

Tupolev Tu-16 Badger tanker aircraft 3

Antisubmarine-warfare helicopters: 85
Kamov Ka-25 Hormone 49
Mil Mi-14 Haze 31
Kamov Ka-27 Helix countermeasures helicopters 5

Mil Mi-14 Haze mine countermeasures helicopters 5

AIR FORCE
Personnel (includes 30,000 air-defense troops) 80,000
Organization:
Bomber division headquarters 2
Fighter/ground-attack/bomber divisions 2
Fighter/ground-attack regiments 2
Fighter divisions 2
Air-defense fighter regiments 7
Reconnaissance regiments 3
Electronic countermeasures regiment 1
Training centers 4

Major Equipment: (1992)
Bomber aircraft: 137
Tupolev Tu-26 Backfire 36
Tupolev Tu-16 Badger 30
Tupolev Tu-22 Blinder 30
Tupolev Tu-95H Bear, strategic 21
Tupolev Tu-160 Blackjack, strategic aircraft 20

Fighter/ground-attack aircraft 90
Sukhoi Su-24 Fencer 60
Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot 30

Fighter aircraft 610
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum 220
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23 Flogger 190
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25 Foxbat 80
Sukhoi Su-15 Flagon 80
Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker 40
Yakovlev Yak-28 Firebar 35

Reconnaissance aircraft: 87
Tupolev Tu-22 Blinder 30
Sukhoi Su-17 Fitter 30
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25 Foxbat 15
Sukhoi Su-24 Fencer 12

Ilyushin Il-78 tanker aircraft 20
Surface-to-air missiles 2,400

[Geography Dan]

OOC:
ROFL!!! Luk, you're ignorance is overwhelmingly laughable! If you had bothered to read my first few posts, you would have noticed that the people of Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Belarus all voted by plebiscite to unify. Yes, even the people in Belarus. They also voted for Arvydas Sabonis as Prime Minister, and elected all of the members of Parliament. Also, if I remember correctly, it is violating the rules of this thread to claim that there is any unrest in another country. Arvydas Sabonis is a Lithuanian, not a German, and Belarus is equally represented in the UBS Parliament along with the other member states. The UBS government was in no way instated by Germany. Also, you ought to note that most intelligent and sane people in the world today have realized that it was the Germna leadership during WW2 that was Nazi, and not the populace. Do I call all Poles infidels simply because they were polytheistic before their conversion to Christianity in over 1000 years ago??? You cannot blame current citizens of any given nation for what that nation did in the past. And as for your claim that my nation is anti-human rights, I simply ask you if anything in any of my posts gives any merit whatsoever to that farcifal claim, and I also point out your nation's brutal expulsion of Germans who have lived there for generations. It is your nation which is totalitarian and anti-human rights.

Also, claiming that your army has 2 million troops and will soon reach 3 million, that may be the most unrealistic statistic ever to be seen in a story thread here! The current army of Russia is only about 1.25 million. How can Poland, Ukraine, and Slovakia then support an army of 3 million only a few years from today? THAT IS TOO UNREALISTIC!!!! Although what can one expect from a narrow-minded Polish racist?

IC:

Already, just one week after the UBS Parliament's request (note: it was a request, not an order. However, since patriotism is and has been extremely high in the UBS, as I have stated in many of my posts, many people are answering the request) for all able-bodied citizens to enlist in the military or work in the military factories, response has been very high. (I think I need to explain this here. Think about it. Suppose you're about 22 years old in this situation in a country full of patriotism. If some of you're friends are enlisting, you will probably feel peer pressure to do so as well. I am saying this to counter any of Luk's arguments that this is unrealistic.) In addition to the current UBS military (1 million troops), there are currently another 1.5 million enlistees being trained. Depending on how long they have been in training, they should be ready for service between 1 and 4 weeks from now. Dozens of former generals have come out of retirement to help make sure that all the new recruits are being very well-trained. Those citizens who have gone to work in the factories as the Parliament (Note: Belarussians have equal representation in the UBS parliament) requested have given the Baltic States' military production a tremendous boost. Tanks, aircraft, missiles, and other munitions are being produced at an extremely high rate. Directed by top UBS engineers, the quality of what is being produced has been kept as high as ever.

United Baltic States Prime Minister Arvydas Sabonis (Note: in the election for Prime Minister, over 80% of Belarussians voted for Sabonis) made a speech to his country today. He told the people of his nation that the very existence of the UBS was being threatened by the vile leadership of the Slav Confederation. He told them that for their nation to prevail, each and every person needs to contribute in any way they can. He said that if the war was lost, the UBS would be subjected to the same racism, persecution, and totalitarianist exploitation as the Slav Confederation. He ended the speech with an emotional tribute to all the people and the rich heritage of Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Belarus.
After the speech, parliament held a vote of confidence for Sabonis. Streets all over the UBS (yes, even in Belarus) were full of crowds rallying in support of their homeland. Preliminary reports just in have shown that the number of new enlistees in the military have skerocketed just in the past few hours this afternoon.

A vote by Parliament held yesterday gave full support to the allied operations in the Baltic Sea. UBS officials have agreed to share all relevant intelligence information with leaders of the allied forces to reduce the effectiveness of a possible Slav attack on the allied fleets.

[MMatt]

I've been brought in by Bolo to try and set some things straight about the Ukraine, which I've researched extensively in preparation for controlling the nation in the Destiny of the World story forum and just out of general interest.

Okay, Luk, this is how it works. The T-84 is the Ukrainian rival of the Russian T-90. As of the year 2000, very few T-84s were even in service. Yes, the T-84 is on a very even playing field with the T-90, maybe even beating it in some aspects, but Russia would be able to tear apart the T-84s just because of sheer numbers. I really hope you don't think a T-84 could stand up to three T-90 tanks, because that's about the ratio you're looking at concerning a T-84 v T-90 showdown.

And yes, Luk is exactly right. As of 1992(the last time the Ukrainian released an official inventory on the internet), the Ukraine had the second largest armor force in Europe. They had 180 PT-76 light tanks, which would last about 17 minutes in battle, 200 T-62 MBTs which would last 15 minutes, 300 un-upgraded T-80s which would last 45 minutes, 1,000 un-upgraded T-72s which would last 45 minutes, 2,100 T-64s which would last 30 minutes, and 2,700 T-55s which would last about 5 minutes in battle. To be frank, about the most you could do with 4,800 of those tanks is turn 'em on their side and use them as a baracade. The rest of the tanks are mediocre at best, and until the Ukraine, in the real world, recovers from its financial crisis enough to the point where it can actually spend some money on its military, the T-84 MBT won't enter as common usage as the T-55 has in the Ukrainian military. The sheer numbers are there, but well over 2/3 of the tanks making up those numbers are deathtraps.

Yes, the Ukraine has 1200 aircraft in its air force and naval air wing combined, including recon and fuelers. No, they are not "very good," unless you consider the Yak-28, Su-15, or MiG-23 "very good." It does have 220 MiG-29 Fulcrum, but they are in deperate need of upgrade, and the Ukraine hasn't the cash to do it.

To give Luk some credit, though, the Ukraine in fact does have the world's largest arms industry, and the Ukraine and her companies(specifically the KhKBM, Kharkiv Malyshev Design Bureau) are responsible for each and every one of the amazing takes that the Soviets had at their fingertips during World War II and immediately thereafter. Every major Russian breakthrough in weapons design was a direct result of Ukrainian R&D. That does not, however, mean the Ukraine is the leading technological state in Europe. Prohibitive legislation regarding the exchange of information has hindered that, and the lack of government funds for R&D programs have all but ground the Ukraine to a halt in terms of new developments. The

Ukraine also has massive productions capabilities in every aspect, from aircraft to tanks to warships. There are large aircraft facilities in Kiev and Kharkiv, MASSIVE tank facilities in Kharkiv, and warships can be constructed at any of the various Crimean and Ukrainian ports, including Mykolayiv, Kerch, Sevastopol, and Kiev itself. The problem, once again, is that the Ukrainian arms industry depends upon exporting goods, since the Ukrainian government is largely unable to afford to fire up production lines for its own purposes.

Oh, yes, and Luk is also correct about the Ukraine's numerous natural resources. Did you know that the Ukraine is, far and away, the world's number one supplier of iron ore? The next closest processes about half as much as the Ukraine per year.

I hope this clears up the mix of half-truths and misunderstood statements concerning the Ukraine that have been floating around. I did my best to set things straight. If I'm needed any further, just let me know. Bolo knows where to reach me.

[Giancarlo]

[IC and OOC mix}
So what tanks does Saudi Arabia and Egypt have then? 1000 M1A1s (Saudi Arabia and UAE) to be exact.. we can tell who really can beat who around here. The AF has a over 2,000 Modern Tanks... numbers don't matter. Okay here is the real IC...

{Real IC}
IC-

Dateline
The Saudi Arabian Army has been taking offensive attacks from the Yemen Army, which is currently at wartorn state equppied with the T-55s and T-72s, nearly 200 of each. The Saudi Army equppied with M1A1s have made considerable advanced into Yemen destroying partially destroyed-military sites, that were damaged in its long civil war. The Saudi Army has gone as far inward as 2 1/2 miles, experiencing some losses...

AF Army:
Saudi Divison- 92 Losses (86 Lost in Sudden Offensive)

Yemeni Army:
Killed- ?? Losses (Some rumors are to be at 643)

AF Government Imposes Embargo
The AF Government has imposed an economic and political embargo on the Slav Confederation, the AF with the world's largest oil supply has cut off supply with the Slav Confederation. With a lot of ties in the real world with Saudi Arabia, we thought this would slow down the Slav Military buildup (which is quite pathetic) anyways. The Egyptian Canal of the Sinai have been cut off to all Slav boats, any Slav Boats entering our waters, Military or Trade will be consfisicated at owners expense.

[MMatt]

Additionally, Luk, you don't have the liscenses to any Sukhoi or Mikoyan-Gurevich fighters or bombers whatsoever. The facilities you have scattered about in your nation could feasibly produce them with a little retooling, but you haven't the rights to do so.

[Giancarlo]

Dateline
New Facilities To Open
Saudi Arabia has production rights to build M1A1s, and have facilities to build up to 500 yearly. Except 3/4 of those facilities are not open and didn't have plans to, so the AF Government is going to open them up and produce about 500 M1A1s yearly.. This move will provide more security for our land and more land-based power for offensive tactics and measures.

Economic Programme
A new Economics programme was started, that will open the market free of government control and encourage a technological sector to develop, we expect this to happen in 3-4 years fully... so we have the ability to produce a wide array of electronics to send our economy back to good heights. This will also produce enough oil to push the Saudia Economic Growth rate in positive zones...

[Du_Chateau]

Mr. Koffed was in his office when one of the persons from the special forces came in.

Mr. Koffed: "Any news?"

Person: "We have check all the nuclear reactors and found 6 bombs."

Mr. Koffed: "That was a lucky break, but I afraid that now is where the work comes in. I had a gut instinct that the terrorists would try to do this. Did you catch any of the terrorists."

Person: "No we did not."

Mr. Koffed: "Well we find them out later. File your report and send it to the president. Also put in the report to have the President get a provision that would strenghen security up fission power plants. Dismissed.

[Tis I]

After weeks of being unconscious in a coma, Britains Prime Minister died today. He will be replaced by Sigma Tisler, an up and coming memeber of the Social Democrats.

Prime Minister Tisler has already advocated sending ships and aircraft to confront the Slav Confederacy.

Funding has already been approved to accelerate the Astute, Emerald, and FSC naval programs as well as the Eurofighter Typhoon.

[gscott23x3]

OOC: LUK you are so funny...hahaha...roflmao!
IC: The Canadian government wishes to inform the Slavic Confederation that any attack against our allies the Baltic States, or Germany herself, will be considered an attack against the Republic of Canada and will be responded in kind.

50,000 troops have arrived in Riga today in a secret convoy to help the nation defend itself in the event of war. Furthermore, the collection of massive transports also unloaded 100 Tanks, 100 Howitzers and Artillery Cannons, and 100 Armored Personnel Carriers. They are currently being deployed around the city of Riga, where they were unloaded.

All Canadian Reserves are being mobilized and the Armored Corps is being readied for transport to Riga to defend the Baltic States from Slavic Aggression.

To USA: Should the Slavic Confederation attack the UBS, or your fleet in the Baltic, would you be willing to ferry 6 squadrons of CF-18 Hornets to our troops near Riga, we are not in posession of a Carrier. Secondly, we are interested in the construction or purchase of a carrier, prefferably a Forrestal or other small carrier for our fleet's use.

To Slavic Confederation: Do not, we repeat, do not invade the UBS! You will be dreadfully sorry if you do! The troops we have ferried across are merely the tip of our reserves, and our equipment is of better quality than the garbage your Soviet masters supplied you with. This is your last warning!

To UBS: Do not worry friend, our troops are safe in Riga and the convoy is en route across the Atlantic to ferry more troops if need be. It is protected by submarines and will soon be within range of our fleet. Should you be attacked, we will command our troops to fight a holding action against the Slavs while you organize your armies and prepare a defense!

[Luk]

OOC:
First - The Main Battle Tank T-90 is not better then T-80... And all your messages about the greatness of T-90 is not right. This tank is worser then T-80UM and the Soviet specialist know that they ****ed the work on T-90. They started to do the T-80 Black Eagle, which was halted because Soviet Union Collapse, and I started to do it in this game....

I combined the forces of Poland, Ukraine, ans Slovakia, because Ukraine is the greatest part of it, but Polish potential is good too...

Ukraine had in 1997 190 000 people in Land Army, 120 000 in forces of aridefense and airstrike. and 18 000 in Naval Forces...

So it is 330 000 people. Your data is not correct.
I combined this with 250 000 of Polish solider and aprox. of 60 000 of Slovakian army.

The Ukraine Airforces have many tactical bombers and good aircrafts MiG-29 but we can not forget about MiG-23 and MiG-21 which are not good but in massive forces they have an important role. Dont forget abou Su-24, and Su-25 which Ukraine has 125 not 90.
And 50 Su-27 Flanker....

And dont forget that all of equipment was rebuilded and strenghten by the great Ukrainian facilites and for one year We prodecuded many tanks T-80UM, and upgraded many of them. We do need the license of Russia, because we are now in hard situation and we cant reach Russia Authorities but we will pay if they will stand with us.

I didnt know the Fleet of Ukraine, but as I see the nubers are great, so thanks for it.

I annouced the total mobilization, and thats why the army reach 3 million of people.
Remember that Russia has 140 millions of people, and Slav Confederate over 100 000 million too. The Baltic States has aporximatly 20 millions and I dont know how can they have 1 million army, and how could they produce the large amount of Military, because they have no facilities to do this.

And now in this game Ukraine has 12 000 tanks because we produced almost 3000 in the time when game was passed...And T-55 in large amounts are effective too.
Dont forget about great strategic, and tactical Aircrafts which destroy any fleet close to Slav Borders

IC: I dont want the war but the Position of Baltic States, England, and USA is very questionable. We dont aware of any of them because they cant do us nothing, but we do not want to be provoked to start the war. We will be removing from Our territory every German who will be accused of breaking the Polish Law and we will stand proud with our great Army.

To England:
Dont threat us, because our bombers and intercontinental missled can reach London...

Slav Fleet in Black Sea started to patrol this area, and is prepared to attack American Fleet if it will break out National Frontiers...

We are wondering when the Baltic State economy collapse. The 10% pf people in army, it is like in Korea...

Give us the reply, why Belarussian, Lithuanian, and Estionian, and Latvian people coould agree to fight with Slavs about 1000 Germans. It is very strange...

[Luk]

And to German People in World War Two...

Then Almost all Germans was for the NAZI. and Hitler could win the elections in 39 with over 90% of supporter. The German People was almost all NAZI, and it is not the work of the few people. In the terror aparat there was many, many normal Germans. Only this Nationa could do what they do. Because all of them are imperialistic, NAZIs scum, even now. They can now be tolerant for international arena, but they will never be peacefull nation, it is not in their nature. So dont **** up with few people who turned the mind of poor Germans. See the history of Germany for over 1000 years, murders, murders, and murders!!!!

[Scott F]

OOC:
Ho-hum. Yet again I must refute the Polish nationalist garbage that Luk spouts in every single post. He cannot afford a military so large, especially with two thirds of his trade gone. His economy is collapsing. With his ports blockaded, and his main trade partners embargoing him, the Slavic Confederate is doomed.

Unlike the German soldier, the German mark has never been defeated in battle and never lost a war. Germans can lose the war but win the peace. It is strange.

Also, in the twelve years of Adolf Hitler's Thousand Year Reich, the NSDAP never ONCE received a majority vote from the German people, and never once held a majority of the seats in the Reichstag. Those are the facts. Despite all of the his thugs, despite the secret police, despite Luk's claim that all Germans were bloodthirsty madmen and mass murderers, he could not win a majority.

IC:
The Slavic claims are absurd. If there were Nazis with such power in Germany, the population would be very busy hanging them from lampposts. As it stands, Germany scoffs at the insane rantings of the diplomats of the Slavic Confederate, a nation whose leadership is obviously not in a stable state of mind.

[Giancarlo]

OOC: But what would win a F-15 or a MiG-23 or MiG-27. I would have to say the F-15 or F-16s. They are the best combat aircraft in the world...

IC:
Tactical Tests
In the Egyptian Desert, groups of F-15s and F-16s are conducting bombing tests and tactical tests, to see how their accuracy and effectiveness is, this is how it rates:

F-15s: 86% (Improvements needed on 10 which are slightly inaccurate, these will be improved in the next weeks and tested again)

F-16s: 98% (Improvements needed on 1 which is very inaccurate, this plane will be repaired and tested again)

"Our Planes are getting ready, and will ready to wipe out as many MiG-23s as it can... we will be ready for this and will fight since we don't want another WWIII going on in Europe since we fear it could spread to Africa then to Egypt as it did in WWII."

-President Giancarlo Carini (Press Conference)

Economy Booms, Literacy Highest Ever
The economy GDP has been growing at an average of +7, the GDP-PC (Per Captia) has grown to $5,800. The reforms have been working to increase growth and increase production and industry in the technological sector. This has helped government involvement with the Education program which was previously at 60%, now is at 82%.... 83% for males, 81% for females. All these ambitious programs will contiune until our country is considered developed...

Health Update
Hospitals Per Person - 1 per 400
Doctors Per Person - 1 per 680
Average Male Life Expectancy - 70.6
Average Female Life Expectancy - 74.2

A current reform is enacted to improve health conditions, it will install more hospitals and train more doctors in areas needed and improve current hospitals increasing supplies.

[Luk]

First, Ukraine has more potential then Germany and it is the facts, Russia didnt blockade us until now... but even if, Ukraine has more national resources, and farms etc. The Slavonic country could resist mor with international blockade then Germany,
and Germany lost two wars in last years... And Polish Soldier are better then German, because in Polish history Germans was winning only then, when Germany had min. of 2:1 soldiers... With equal numbers they always loose.

IC: Dont threat to Slav, because in one week we could reach Berlin, and Slav Flag will be flying on Brandemburg Gate...