Europe 1750...

[Mao]

For forever? OK, cool!

[Mao]

OK, I think we need to start a new thread just for military statistics. Also, what if me and JT3 attack Duchies at the same time? What happens?

[PolarisGL]

Glad you figured it out, Bearcat.

[Chris Szabla]

As the Dutchy of Savoy I will keep the moves as posted by BT above. A storyline and new moves will be posted as soon as the story is declared open.

But for now:
Gloria Savoia Immortalis, reces Europae!

[hacksaw]

SWEDEN
60,000 standing troops
I Corps 20,000 troops at Sveiaborg
II Corps 20,000 troops at Stockholm
III Corps 20,000 troops at Gothenburg
3 heavy, 4 light, 1 privateer
Budget = $480 = $144 military
$54 available for purchases
Hire 2 heavy warships, 1 light Stockholm
raising 14000 regulars in Gothenburg


[This message has been edited by hacksaw (edited April 16, 2000).]

[General_BT]

On teh Indian Map, the yellowish tan areas are open land... no empire controls them...
And no more regulars for the big empires unless they raise them... I asked my military history prof today what the standing armies of some of these states were, and you'll be suprised...

Britain: Around 20,000 peacetime
France: 200,000 at most
Austria: 80,000-100,000

Since we already have deployed using the old numbers, and I believe the numbers are balanced considering the system we're using, they'll stay that way...

Nations with colonies can have a colonial militia of territory number times 1000 per territory they control in India... for instance, in India, the French could have:
6,000 for each section of Bengal they control
2,000 the two sections of Golconda they control. In the Americas, this number is 500 times the colony numbers, rounded up (except for the Dutch, isnce their so small to begin with)

Colonial militia are paid for by the local taxpayers(your gov isn't charged), but are at a -1 in battle. As the militias are rotated through all available men, homesickness is not a problem as soldiers return home from short tours of duty... in theory.
The colonial militias can be added to only with regular militia additions, additional troops raised in the colonies cannot be regulars.

And I've decided that colonies can contribute half their normal territorial tax output and city tax output to your treasury (thus, a 6 colony would give you $30 in taxes).


COLONIAL MILITIAS IN INDIA:
ENGLAND:
31,000
FRANCE:
16,000
PORTUGAL:
4,000
HOLLAND:
11,000

COLONIAL MILITIAS IN THE AMERICAS
SPAIN:
84,000
FRANCE:
62,000
ENGLAND:
83,000
HOLLAND:
3,000

The reason for the small numbers in India is to force the Europeans to play teh Indian Empires off of each other, as was done very successfully in real life.

INTIAL DEPLOYMENTS, ETC. FOR INDIAN/ASIAN NPCs

SAFAVID PERSIA:
Standing Army: 40,000 regular troops
60,000 militia
Kerman Army I: 15,000 regulars in Kerman
Kerman Army II: 20,000 militia in Kerman
Kandahar Army I: 15,000 regulars in Kandahar
Kandahar Army II: 20,000 militia in Kandahar

Kabul Army I: 10,000 regulars in Kabul
Kabul Army II: 20,000 militia in Kabul


Budget: $280 -- military of $84
$14 left to spend
7,000 regulars to be drafted

INDEPENDENT KHANATES:
Standing Army: 10,000 regular troops
20,000 militia
Samarkand Army: 10,000 regulars in Samarkand
Merv Army: 10,000 militia in Merv
Balkh Army: 10,000 militia in Balkh

Budget: $160 -- military of $48
Spending - $28
Raising 14,000 regulars

MARATHA CONFEDERACY:
Current Army: 130,000 regular troops
210,000 militia
I Corps: 20,000 regulars in Jaipur
II Corps: 20,000 militia in Jaipur
III Corps: 20,000 regulars in Nagpur
IV Corps: 20,000 militia in Nagpur
V Corps: 20,000 regulars in Cambay
VI Corps: 20,000 militia in Broach
VII Corps: 20,000 regulars in Vizagapatam
VIII Corps: 20,000 militia in Vizagapatam
IX Corps: 20,000 regulars in Bijapur
X Corps: 20,000 militia in Bijapur
XI Corps: 30,000 regulars in Jaipur
XII Corps: 20,000 militia in Bijapur
XIII Corps: 20,000 militia in Cambay
XIV Corps: 20,000 militia in Vizagapatam
XV Corps: 20,000 militia in Jaipur
XVI Corps: 30,000 militia in Bijapur

Budget: $840... military of $246
Spending left: $11

MYSORE:
Current Army: 50,000 regular troops
60,000 militia
Budget: $270... military of $81
Spending left: $1
I Corps: 20,000 regulars in Golconda
II Corps: 15,000 regulars in Calicut
III Corps 15,000 regulars in Mysore
IV Corps: 20,000 militia in Mysore
V Corps: 20,000 militia in Golconda
VI Corps: 20,000 militia in Calicut

MOGHUL EMPIRE:
Current Army: 70,000 regulars
130,000 militia
I Corps: 15,000 regulars in Delhi
II Corps: 15,000 regulars in E. Kashmir
III Corps: 20,000 regulars in Gwailor
IV Corps: 20,000 reglars in S. Delhi
V Corps: 15,000 militia in S. Delhi
VI Corps: 15,000 militia in Gwailor
VII Corps: 20,000 militia in E. Kashmir
VIII Corps: 20,000 militia in Delhi
IX Corps: 20,000 militia in Ajmer
X COrps: 20,000 militia Gwailor
XI Corps: 20,000 militia in S. Delhi

Budget:$790.. military of $237
Spending Left: $102
50,000 regulars drafted

Historically, Britain allied herself with the Marathas, while France jumped between the Moghuls, and once they died, to various upstarts, until Plassey crushed all hopes of a French INdian Empire...
[This message has been edited by General_BT (edited April 16, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by General_BT (edited April 16, 2000).]

[Bearcat]

This is called Europe 1750. To make things simpler why don't we just take money from our colonies and concentrate everything else in Europe. Although I know that alot of times what happened in Europe happened in the Colonies too.

[Mao]

quote: Originally posted by Bearcat on 04-16-2000 04:17 AM This is called Europe 1750. To make things simpler why don't we just take money from our colonies and concentrate everything else in Europe. Although I know that alot of times what happened in Europe happened in the Colonies too.

Because that would be unfair. Either you include the colonies completely or not at all. To simply take money from it is only an advantage for colonial powers, and that needs to be evened out, so they have to garrison their colonies. Otherwise, it's unfair to non-colonial powers (ie: Me!).

[Mao]

quote: Originally posted by Bearcat on 04-16-2000 12:18 PM I'm an "un-colonial power" to Mao. It's jsut that IRL the colinia lpowers probably did have the advantage over non-colonial powers.

True, but we need playability here, and if a nation gets a huge fund of money that no one can match, that kinda ruins it. IRL Prussia would never be overrun by England or France, but if you only represent colonial powers with money, then England and France can overrun Prussia, not really realistic.

[BasV]

I think colonies should in some way be included, but not only the Americas and India. The Netherlands got most of their money from trade, and without my possessions in Indonesia, I'll be running a budget deficit. This way, I'll only be able to support armies smaller than nations that were roughly on par with the Netherlands IRL.

[General_BT]

There you run into the problems of yourmoderator and mapmaker being human.

I'm trying to update the European maps, and get all those forces on there. I don't have time to make additional colonial maps. And we are having colonies, and teh colonial powers will have to garrision and fight in them, at the very least against local powers...

[Mao]

The way I look at it is this: Either include colonies completely or not at all. If you only make the colonies generate money, that's not fair to the non-colonial powers. If you want them to generate money, you'll also have to garrison your colonies or run the risk of having them overrun. You can't just have the good, you need to take the good with the bad.

[BasV]

I realized that, and I don't think we need a map of the entire world. I just think that including the Americas and India but not certain other parts of the world is giving an advantage to certain colonial powers over other ones. I suggest keeping the thread limited to Europe, and let the moderator (or somebody else) decide on colonial matters (ie decide how much money people get, what the result of European nations sending more garrisons to the colonies will be, etcetera).

[hacksaw]

I think we need to have a map of the oceans. That way non colony nations would be able to konw how long it would take on of our transports to reach the colonies. Also i would like to have africa included for the colonies if possible. Also i think that in order for a nation to recieve the gold from its colonys it needs to build treasure ships that cost about 7 gold and cost 2 to maintain. The will lose even to a privateer unless escorted and if they are defeated the gold they carry would be transfered to the victorious nation/nations. I think they could carry maybe about 200 gold.
Also for future colonies i think we could consider asia( however they would face strong native nations) africa, or south america.

[Mao]

OK, I have a radical suggestion, and one that may piss the hell out of BT who worked so hard on this: Let's just turn this into a story thread! We can still use the maps, but it won't be too tactical. BT can be mod if he wishes, and he can decide battles. But none of the budget stuff, the numbers stuff, the smokestacks, etc. Just a plain story thread. As it stands now, we stand a to lose more than a few players because of this games complexity. I'm in either way, but I think we should just turn this into a normal story thread.