Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Barbarians and when they stay

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 2
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 template Next
  • #1

    Barbarians and when they stay

    For about an hour now, I've typed, copy/pasted and saved/loaded myself crazy trying to keep some damn barbarian units in my scenario. I don't expect any solutions to this problem, but I thought I'd just share a chronology of my growing insanity with you:

    Mid-September 2002: Added Barbarian villages to the scenario.
    End-September/Mid-October 2002: Playtesters reported to me, after I asked them for several times, they saw no Barbarian villages.
    Mid-October 2002: I thought I fixed the problem.
    Mid-October 2002: Playtester still didn't see any Barbarian villages.
    Begin-November 2002: Went back to the problem. Couldn't fix it, believed I used the wrong rules file, and deleted the correct one by 'oversaving' it.
    Added barbarian whales to scenario.
    Early Nov. 2. 2002: Received latest rules file from playtester.
    Nov. 2. 2002 ca. 21.10: Got back to the problem. Thought it'd be a short while till I fixed the problem. Thought it'd be done before CD ('Queen') would end.

    Problem wasn't fixed. Consulted SL design tips and William Keenan's Barbarian paper.

    Problem still wasn't fixed. 'Queen' was over.
    Started playing 'A Night At The Opera', believing problem would be fixed no later than end of The Prophet's Song.

    Heureka! Got an idea! Changed barbarian units slots from Extra-7 and Extra-8 to Musketeer and Partisan slots, because I know of painful experience, that these units never disappear!

    The Prophet's Song over. Still nothing.

    Copied units stats from scenarios with immobile barbarian units that I know haven't disappeared. Used Mike Daumen's "The Great Game" and my own "Artaxerxes".

    Nothing.

    'A Night At The Opera' over.
    Started playing 'Hot Space'.
    At mid-Staying Power I nearly tossed my keyboard out of the window.

    A short summary of the problem:

    Immobile barbarian units will stay when loaded from savegame. Immobile barbarians will not stay when loaded from scn. Well, that's not true, sometimes they stay for one or two turns, but then disappear. From all slots tested. That is, from X-7, X-8, Musketeer, Partisan, Battleship and AEGIS. They will all disappear, although I got good ol' Blackclove's approval that they will stay.

    It is now 22:28 CET. At the moment, Las Palabras De Amor is playing (I skipped Staying Power, Dancer and Body Language, because I can't stand these songs, and I can't forgive them that they used Body Language as B-Side for The Show Must Go On later on! )
    Follow the masses!
    30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Ah Barbarians - My Favorite!!!

    Coincidentally, my current effort uses an ungodly number of immobile barbarians, it starts as a scenario, and they NEVER die. If yours are disappearing, this may be your problem:

    1) You don't have any Barbarian Cities on the map, AND

    2) You are using a CHANGETERRAIN event.

    The combination of those two is the equivalent of "KillCivilization" for Barbs.
    To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

    From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

    Comment

    • #3
      1) Positive

      2) Positive

      So you're suggesting I should put a Barbarian city on the map?

      I'm going slightly mad...
      Follow the masses!
      30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

      Comment

      • #4
        Very interesting. And in Test of Time, there's a "barbarian unit does not expire" flag. Just in case you were wondering....
        Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios

        www.tecumseh.150m.com

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Barbarians and when they stay

          Put the immobile ones in fortresses. Does that work?
          Or, if they're immobile anyway, do you really need them to be Barbarians?

          Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
          It is now 22:28 CET. At the moment, Las Palabras De Amor is playing (I skipped Staying Power, Dancer and Body Language, because I can't stand these songs, and I can't forgive them that they used Body Language as B-Side for The Show Must Go On later on! )
          Body Language I can understand... But Dancer and Staying Power???
          Civilization II: maps, guides, links, scenarios, patches and utilities (+ Civ2Tech and CivEngineer)

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
            1) Positive

            2) Positive

            So you're suggesting I should put a Barbarian city on the map?

            I'm going slightly mad...
            Believe me, I know how you feel. This problem drove me COMPLETELY INSANE during the building of SoG!

            If you plan on using Barbarian Units and ChangeTerrain events, you MUST place a Barb city someplace on the map. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. (unless, that is, you convert your scenario to ToT)
            To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

            From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

            Comment

            • #7
              Very interesting. And in Test of Time, there's a "barbarian unit does not expire" flag. Just in case you were
              wondering....


              I never got into ToT

              Put the immobile ones in fortresses. Does that work?
              Or, if they're immobile anyway, do you really need them to be Barbarians?


              The problem with fortresses in this scenario is, that I want them to be in one place of the map only. Apart from that, some of these barbarian units are invisible, and having a fortress there would spoil the surprise.
              As for the second suggestion, that is something well worth thinking about. In the end, that's perhaps the only solution, as I have no idea where I should place that Barbarian city (Bikini Atoll? Nauru? Rarotonga?)...

              Body Language I can understand... But Dancer and Staying Power???


              Well, Dancer is allright if I'm in the mood for it, but Staying Power... it was that "Hot&Spacey Horn" solo that convinced me of skipping it once and for all... I wish they'd kept that Non-Synthesizer policy at least till The Works... (BTW, can you believe, my brother has got an American Greatest Hits version that has Body Language instead of Bohemian Rhapsody!!!!)

              Believe me, I know how you feel. This problem drove me COMPLETELY INSANE during the building of SoG!

              If you plan on using Barbarian Units and ChangeTerrain events, you MUST place a Barb city someplace on the map.
              No ifs, ands, or buts about it. (unless, that is, you convert your scenario to ToT)


              Same as above. I'd love to place a Barbarian city, but I have none to place!
              And I can't exclude the changeterrain thing, because that's one of the things that actually carries the scenario. But it's the same with the Barbarians!
              Hmm... well, I could simply exclude the Native Americans... they play absolutely no role in this scenario at all and were included merely for polit... excuse me, historical correctness...
              Follow the masses!
              30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

              Comment

              • #8
                Stefan, I'm thinking on this problem: With Hex-editing, you can put a city on a ocean square, so there is plenty of room...
                Trying to rehabilitateh and contribuing again to the civ-community

                Comment

                • #9
                  It's even easier than that. I did this once in my [ad]Alexander Scenario[/ad], and tested it throughoutly. You can build a city on any terrain square, then go to the rules file, change the terraforming result to "ocean", and let an engineer do terraforming in the city. The greatest part of that is, the only type of unit that can take cities on ocean squares is the helicopter-type unit.
                  I will consider that.
                  Follow the masses!
                  30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stefan Härtel

                    The problem with fortresses in this scenario is, that I want them to be in one place of the map only. Apart from that, some of these barbarian units are invisible, and having a fortress there would spoil the surprise.
                    It doesn't matter. Changeterrain is so powerful it sweeps ALL barbarians from the map. Fortresses offer no protection.

                    As for the second suggestion, that is something well worth thinking about. In the end, that's perhaps the only solution, as I have no idea where I should place that Barbarian city (Bikini Atoll? Nauru? Rarotonga?)...


                    In SoG I created an isolated Barb City at the top of the Caspian Sea, so it has no effect on the game. I'd recommend doing something similar - maybe place one in Antarctica or on a nonexistant island at the bottom of the map (surround it with impassable Barb units so no one can reach it). In fact, perhaps you could set this city to produce some kind of Pirate ship - that way it's not completely useless.
                    To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

                    From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      As has been suggested before, place a Barbarian city somewhere on the map and you'll be perfectly safe. :-)

                      I never had the problem because all of my scenarios use several barb cities so I became never aware of it.

                      What is your scenario about? You talked about whales...I used whales as barb units in my Viking scenario.
                      The Lost Geologist Blog
                      http://lostgeologist.blogspot.com

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Allright, I placed a barbarian city in the northeast corner of the map. To make entirely sure that it has no impact, it produces a non-mobile unit and is surrounded by impassable units with the 'bomber' flag.

                        I never had the problem because all of my scenarios use several barb cities so I became never aware of it.


                        The same with me

                        What is your scenario about? You talked about whales...I used whales as barb units in my Viking scenario.


                        It is about the colonization of the south seas by the Polynesians, Melanesians and Micronesians. There is a thread somewhere in this forum with a couple of screenshots. But it'll not be long till I can release it, I hope...
                        (I attached a randomly chosen screenshot here...)
                        Attached Files
                        Follow the masses!
                        30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Will it be a size 0 invisible city?

                          -FMK.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            It's invisible, but the city still cumulates food. When it cumulates enough food and reach pop 1, it becomes visible...
                            Trying to rehabilitateh and contribuing again to the civ-community

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Polynesia? Cool, I think you mentioned somthing about that to me a long time ago. Can't wait to see it!
                              The Lost Geologist Blog
                              http://lostgeologist.blogspot.com

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 template Next
                              Working...
                              X