Map Request

[klesh]

quote: Originally posted by Mercator on 04-12-2001 06:22 AM There are three brilliant scenario making guides over here: http://gene.wins.uva.nl/~jvermeir/civ2/guides.htm

Tasty stuff, man. Just what I needed.

Thank you!

[klesh]

Okay guys,

I am getting really confused here. It is about the techs. I have made no progress in that department, because I'm caught in loops of logic and thought. I can't seem to understand exactly what I need to do to get things to work like I want.


I am confused as to how to have units that cannot be built, but are viewable in the Civlopedia. Because this is not 'normal', it isn't really cover very well in any of the guides I've read so far.

I suppose that is not totally necessary to have the units in the Civlopedia, but it would be so much better to have them there.

I don't even need techs at all if I totally just want to take the easy way out. Just change all the techs to 'no,nil' and blast away witrh event-generated units. But that is kinda amaturish. I'd rather put some time into it.

I have sorta hit a roadblock, because I can't proceed in one area untill another is done, and on and on. it is frustrating, but there is always time to fine tune unit graphics!

I hope this turns out to be something to be proud of when I am done....probably not

[BeBMan]

quote: I am confused as to how to have units that cannot be built, but are viewable in the Civlopedia

You can setup different techtrees for each civ. Example:

Germans:

Tech1 - needs: nil/no, given per cheat menu from the start
Tech2 - needs: Tech1/nil,given per cheat menu from the start
Tech3 and more: need Tech2/nil (or other, higher tech)

Make all German units AND techs available with tech3 (or later techs). Give all German units real prerequisites (a "no"-unit doesn´t appear in the civilopedia), but make sure that these prerequisites are part of the German techtree only, as described above. Since the whole techtree bases on tech1, which can´t be researched (due to the nil/no setting), no other civ can have German units or techs.

Then create a similar techtree for the Russians, bur take care of the special effects of some techs...

Note: I´m not sure, but I think Tech1 MUST have nil/no (NOT no/nil). If I recall correctly you have to enable Tech1 (nil/nil) to give it via cheat menu, then change it back to nil/no after you´ve given it to Germany.
It´s also possible that this isn´t the best solution, but it should work, I have done that in Imperium Romanum, I hope forgot nothing...

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[klesh]

Thanks BeBro!
BTW, I think your Imp. Romanum is excellent! It is one fo the few Anciet scenarios that keeps my attention. Great work!

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 04-14-2001 07:31 AM Note: I´m not sure, but I think Tech1 MUST have nil/no (NOT no/nil). If I recall correctly you have to enable Tech1 (nil/nil) to give it via cheat menu, then change it back to nil/no after you´ve given it to Germany.

Okay, but IIRC this should be done at the end, or else the computer(via the BAK file) will change it back right. IIRC somewhere I've read that if you use the in-game editor after you make these changes
it'll switch 'em back because (to it) they don't make any sense.


Okay, now what about these special tech effects? You mean like Philosophy and how it gives 2 free advances etc? Are these things hardcoded to those particular techs? So, I should maybe just change those ones to 'no,no' and just throw them away. With the ammount of other advances I am sure I can afford to trash the few that have special effects. I don't need them causing me any headaches....I have enough of those already!

[BeBMan]

quote: Okay, now what about these special tech effects?

Yes, I mean these things like philosophy etc .
BTW, are all civs locked in Fundamentalism? If so it´s easier, you don´t have to worry about happiness techs (e.g. some improvements, as temples only work with their tech). If you need more info about these special effects, there is a very good design tip here on the ScenarioLeague site about it.

In my eyes the techtree work is the hardest thing in every scenario, so once you have done this, the rest should be no problem...

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[klesh]

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 04-14-2001 05:06 PM BTW, are all civs locked in Fundamentalism? If so it´s easier, you don´t have to worry about happiness techs (e.g. some improvements, as temples only work with their tech). If you need more info about these special effects, there is a very good design tip here on the ScenarioLeague site about it.

What I figure I will do is this. The 2 govs will be Fascism and Communism, but I will go in and give them both the kind of fundamentalism 'never unhappy' type of stats. Maybe even boost 'em up a bit.

Are the happines improvements the only ones that have the tech requirement in order to function?

[klesh]

Bebro: I think I am starting to get it! Let me elaborate on your explanation as I understand them, and tell me if I am following what you mean correctly. My additions will be in italics.


You can setup different techtrees for each civ. Example:

Germans:

Tech1 - needs: nil/no, given per cheat menu from the start. (We'll call it 'Leibensraum' for now)

Tech2 - needs: Tech1/nil, given per cheat menu from the start. (We'll call it 'Agressive Warfare' for now)

Tech3 (and more) - need: Tech2/nil (or other, higher tech).(We'll call it 'Wermacht' for now).

Tech4 - needs: Tech3/nil. This will never actually get discovered.
Techs 4 through say 15, could be named directly for the units they are attatched to. The unit Techs(4-15) do not need to be strung together, they can now all have 'Wermacht/nil' for the settings.


Make all German units AND techs available with Tech3-'Wermacht'. This tech (and later ones) will be unreachable, so units cannot ever be built, but will be viewable in the Civlopedia.

Give all German units real prerequisites ('Wermacht')... (a "no"-unit doesn´t appear in the civilopedia), but make sure that these prerequisites are part of the German techtree only, as described above. Since the whole techtree bases on Tech1- ('Leibensraum'), which can´t be researched (due to the nil/no setting), no other civ can have German units or techs.


Note: I´m not sure, but I think Tech1 MUST have nil/no (NOT no/nil). If I recall correctly you have to enable Tech1 (nil/nil) to give it via cheat menu, then change it back to nil/no after you´ve given it to Germany.Obviously do the same for the Soviet 'starter' Tech.



So, everybody.... Does this make sense? Have I finally figured out what to do? I feel like a great 'Fog of War' has been lifted as I can start to see what I need to do here.

I pray that you guys see that there are no problems with my logic here.


[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 14, 2001).]

[Marko]

There are some alternative possibilities also.

Make a technologies:

Tech A, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0
Tech B, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0

Set that all Soviet units are obsoleted by Tech A and all Axis units are obsoleted by Tech B.

Give Axis Tech A and Soviets Tech B.

Then you don't need to have separate tech trees for each civ but only one common tech tree.

For example Panzer IV and T-34 can have the same tech as prerequisite. But only Axis can build Pz IV and only Soviets T-34.

You save a lot of techs for other purposes.

[Marko]

I read your previous messages over and understood that you don't want that ANY unit will be built.
Then there is no need to make any tech trees at all.

You can do simply this way:

1. Make a technology like this:

Units, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0

2. Put it as prerequisite to all units.
3. Make sure that nobody has this tech from the beginning (the best: delete all techs from everyone)

Results:
1. Nobody can build any units
2. All units are viewable in Civilopedia.

During the game give civilizations specific techs by events, like:

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Unit A
attacker=Axis
defender=Soviets
@THEN
GIVETECHNOLOGY
receiver=Axis
technology=93
@ENDIF

and:

@IF
RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY
technology=93
receiver=Axis
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Unit B
owner=Axis
veteran=yes
homecity=NONE
locations
64,35
23,12
endlocations
JUSTONCE
@ENDIF

@IF
RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY
technology=93
receiver=Axis
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Unit C
owner=Axis
veteran=yes
homecity=NONE
locations
64,35
23,12
endlocations
@ENDIF

The Tech 93 can look like:

Tech A, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0 ; X1

Result:
If Axis manages to kill Soviet Unit A, then he gets free Unit B (only once - JUSTONCE) and Unit C (every turn until the end of scenario). Units appear in location 64,35 and if it is occupied by enemy, in square 23,12.

There are 100 available techs in Civ2. They are numbered from 0 to 99 (from up to down).

[BeBMan]

quote: ...and understood that you don't want that ANY unit will be built. Then there is no need to make any tech trees at all.

Yes FMK, Marko´s solutions are probably easier to realise, if there should be no new units in the game. Then you also don´t need to give techs via events in the game, as you said in the earlier post. Or have I misunderstood something?


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[Henrik]

Just meake sure that the cities can build something, thje game might well crash otherwise (rename capitalization to something).

[klesh]

Yes, Henrik. I was thinking they would need something to build... 'Captialization' renamed is an excellent idea!

As you have seen at CivFanatics Marko, I have completed a tech tree! Basically, it only serves the purpose of making an astetically pleasing structure to the Civlopedia. Units are devided by country, then branch of service. This ate up 15 tech slots (skipped over those slots with special effects), but I think that 85 techs for events like the ones you mentioned above should be enough.


Alas, I hit a BIG wall yesterday


Whilst I was looking at design tips in order to progress, I decided to look at something I thought was sorta a 'finishing touch'...the sounds. Well, to my utter surprise and dismay I find that the sounds for units are very much tied into their unit slot!!!! That is so dumb, it makes no sense to have that hard-coded into the game!?! So now I have to go back and totally rearrange the units, but first I have to figure which ones are gonna use the same sounds etc.


I am thinking of making many new, never-before-heard sound samples from movies. My buddies have all kinds of good equipment for that. I am aware of the requirements (8bit, mono whatever) for the sounds. This is just a big pain in the arse, because nowe I have to stop building, and sit down to conceptualize again. The sounds were so far from my mind that it is really not something I was prepared to deal with just yet... Oh well, take it as it comes. Okay, back into the fray...

[klesh]

Wow, that was annoying... I refigured my units so that they all share the appropriate sounds. Now I just have to edit up the rules.txt and fiddle with the tech tree, but I have that under control. I am starting to get this.
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 16, 2001).]

[klesh]

Well, here is a picture of the map with most of the 'cities' placed. I have been working hard at this in the past few days. I have all the techs distributed, and what I think will be all of the cities placed.

Now for some testing of unit stats....maybe a few more minibattles... Comming along nicely.

[Marko]

Good!