My (not really secret) project ;-)...

[BeBMan]

St.Leo: I could name it a ziggurat, but in fact it was not only ONE ziggurat, it was THE ziggurat, and the name Tower of Babel shows perfectly it´s important role. But perhaps has someone a better name?

Michael: the Tower of Babel will be one of the wonders that are placed from the beginning. It still exists in 386BC. I´ll use wonder slots I usually don´t need in an ancient scn for such prebuild wonders.

Sloth and Stefan: I also think it´s function was more religious, but it was not uncommon that such buildings had also been fortified. This is typical for many ancient religious places.

[Sloth]

Tower of Babel is fine with me but if you want to please St.Leo and honor his site you can call it "Marduk Ziggurat". Maybe the Sumerian name "Etemenanki" ("The Foundation of Heaven and Earth") is a bit too complicated...
[This message has been edited by Sloth (edited July 20, 2000).]

[Stefan Härtel]

Why don't you replace the Ziqqurat with the Walls of Babylon? Many ancient (and modern) authors count(ed) it to the 7 wonders of the ancient world.
The Tower of Babel was halfway destroyed by Great King Xerxes I. (reigned 486-465 BC) during one of the two Babylonian revolts in his reign (either 485 or 479 BC). Alex le Grande tried to rebuild it (with no success).

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[BeBMan]

Currently I think I´ll keep the ziggurat. I think it is good for the atmosphere when you have some of the "older" wonders, like the Pyramids or this Tower of Babel. There are enough other wonders to build in the game...

[VietMinh]

I have a question; if the scenario starts in 386 or even 500 like in v1.0 why isn't there a unique spartan infantry like the macedonian one? Because Sparta was still a very strong city-state even the dominant one because the macedonians haven't conquered them yet. I would suggest that the spartan infantry should appear through events because Sparta at most could only field 9000 hoplites.
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War bares a sword's steel.
Autumn leaves reflect color,
A samurai's Blood.

Tai-Sho Minobu Tetsuhara

[Shadowstrike]

I was wondering, is Alexandria in this scenario? I'm curious because its founded soon after the scenario starts, and houses the important Great Library (a wonder in Civilization II and certainly an important edifice. It would be historically inaccurate not to include the city, but also inaccurate if it was there before it was suppose to be founded.

One more issue. Are you going to depict the invasion of Persia by Alexander via events?

[BeBMan]

VietMinh, this is a good idea, in fact I´ll create different units per events randomly.
But 386 is also close to the Hegemony of Theben (English name?), the "golden" years of the Spartan phalanx are a bit earlier. But you are right, Sparta is still powerful in 386BC. At the moment I cannot say if I include such an event, because the events.txt is currently to 0% ( )finished, and the most events will be for the Romans.

BTW, the ancient scn from SCDARS (he is on holiday this time) has exactly such a Spartan phalanx event you´ve suggested...

Shadowstrike, I also thought about this problem. I think I´ll include Alexandria (the same goes for some other cities, for instance Carthago Nova). I know, this is not absolutely accurat, but these cities are, in my eyes, to important to leave them for the AI (and watch the AI founding Carthago Nova in North Africa )...

For Alex the Great: I don´t know (same reason as above), and I also think it would be nice to see Macedonians invading Persia in 334BC, but it would also cost a lot of events space to create an army that is able to conquer the whole Persian empire, and if the Romans are the recommended civ (and they will be it) these events should be better used.
But, as in V1.0, the Macedonians will be at war with Persia, and they will be able to research much better units as the Persians...

[Stefan Härtel]

I know this is wishful thinking, but maybe it's possible via hex-editing to rename a civ within the game (and a batch file that does so)... it would then rename the Persians into Seleucids... Allard?

Having Alexandreia in from the start isn't entirely bad. The northern Nile Delta was very valuable, so a big city in from the start isn't too bad. You could then include Antioch in northern Syria too (again, not entirely inaccurate).

A Spartan hoplite is of course impossible to leave out! Hey... wait a minute, how many Greek civs do you have in the game?

And the English spelling for Theben is "Thebes" (Greek "Thebai", Latin "Thebae")

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[Shadowstrike]

What you could do is give the Macedonians units for capturing Persian cities. This way, they can start small and conquer the Persians with their relentless, ever-growing armies. Also, make sure that they cannot talk to each other and make peace (most unhistorical )

[BeBMan]

Stefan, I agree if you say that Alexandria isn´t that bad from the beginning . The same goes for other cities. A player that plays with the Romans would not see this cities in the beginning , because he have to conquer Italy first, so I think I can include Alexandria, Carthago Nova, Antiochia and some others. Otherwise it would to bad if your Legions advance in the game and these cities wouldn´t exist (or on a completely wrong location).

Shadowstrike, currently I think about the Macedonians as the second recommended civ to play. The startyear is also good for them, because they were still weak at this time so that they offer a similar challenge as the Romans. While the Romans try to conquer Italy a Human player could lead the Macedonians into the hegemony over Hellas...

For the negotiations: in V1.0 were negotiations possible, but I think I´ll forbid them completely for V2.0. Yes, I know that this is not accurate, but it has in my eyes more advantages, especially for the research of civ-specific units (and there will be a lot of them ).
I also like the fact that you have to conquer all cities (no Diplos, no bribing - like in Cross&Crescent). This may also seem inaccurate, but even more inaccurate is it when the Romans bribe a lot of cities, instead of capturing them.
[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited July 21, 2000).]

[VietMinh]

True the spartan golden years were a bit ealier but no one can denie that they were still unique and much more effective than the average greek hoplite. example:The Carthagians hired SPARTANS soldiers to defeat the Romans on african soil. So even to the first punic war The Spartan hoplites were strong.
2 questions;
1.Where can I download the Ancient Scenario that SCDARS? ( I really love Ancient scenarios )
2.Will v2.0 be objective based or empire building like v1.0?

Stefan; When will Darius 2.2 be out?
And why in Artaxerxes there is no unique Spartan? I find this...disturbing because the scenario is suppose to be foccused on Sparta. But the scenario was very good.
_____________________________________________

War bares a sword's steel.
Autumn leaves reflect color,
A samurai's blood.

Tai-Sho Minobu Tesuhara

[Stefan Härtel]

Viet: I wanted Darius 2.2 to be out by July 28th, but it seems like it'll drag on a little. I hope it will be worth the wait.

About Artaxerxes: I was aware of the Spartan supremacy during that time when I made the scen, but I already had so many units... and here, quantity goes over quality. I once played as the Spartans, and found that it is very easy to play with them (but still fun).

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[BeBMan]

Sorry VietMinh, the ancient scenario from SCDARS is currently in the betatest, so you can´t download it this time. But I´m a tester.
This scn has exactly such an event that creates a Spartan elite phalanx randomly from time to time. Perhaps I should steal this idea...

To your question for V2.0: no objectives, the goal is to capture ALL cities. I´ll find the right balance between wargaming and empire building (I love empire building games, but there will be also enough to fight for).

Stefan, can´t wait until D2.2 comes out.

[St Leo]

@IF
UnitKilled
unit=Hoplites
attacker=Achaemenids
defender=Macedonians
@THEN
CreateUnit (x2/3/4)
owner=Macedonians
unit=Hoplites
veteran=Yes
homecity=NONE
locations
(Pasargadae)
(Babylon)
(Damascus)
(Byzantium)
endlocations
@ENDIF

Lets see Persians stop this.

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/
[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited July 21, 2000).]

[Prometeus]

Huh, St Leo, can you explain me this?

* (x2/3/4) *

Please note i've Civ 2 MGE...

BTW are you interested in PG3 snapping series or not? Just tell me...



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Ave atque vale...