My (not really secret) project ;-)...

[BeBMan]

Thanks for your offer, St.Leo! But after I´ve read your posts in the "maps" thread, I played a bit with MapUtil. Here is the first try:
What would you say, are the coastlines ok? But all terrain squares have to be changed, because MapUtil turned them all into mountains... BTW, what is the size limit for civ2 maps? Any values higher than 75x130 caused an "Out of range" error in MapUtil. Is this the limit?

Oh, I forgot...Shadowstrike, you are right, I also thought about the Egyptians. But I´m not sure. They would be perfect "between" Carthage and Persia, but in reality they were occupied by Persians (the V1.0 started in 500 BC), later by Macedonians.
However, I think there were also some Egyptian revolts (one with support from Athen) against the Persians, or I start the V2.0 later...hard decisions!
[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited July 12, 2000).]

[Stefan Härtel]

Well, it would- honestly said- be a stupid thing to include the Egyptians as an independent civ.
Try using Barbarian units first- revolts of 486-484 BC, 463-454 BC, independence period from 400-343 BC, revolt of 338-336 BC.
Afterwards the Egyptians were under Macedonian rule-including the Ptolemaean period of 304-31 BC.
It is a very stupid thing to cover this in one scenario-when are you thinking to start?

PS: The map looks awesome!

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[BeBMan]

quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 07-12-2000 02:37 PM ...when are you thinking to start?

That´s exactly the big question, Stefan. At first, I want to start also in 500 BC, because I like the fact that you have to begin with only one city - Rome. Much later, and it makes no sense to include other Italian tribes.
On the other hand, a starting point short before the 1st Punic war has also some advantages, but wouldn´t me allow to include an independent Persian civ...However I´m still unsure. I´ll finish the map first, and then I think again about the civs. Meanwhile, suggestions are welcome...

[St Leo]

BTW, what is the size limit for civ2 maps? Any values higher than 75x130 caused an "Out of range" error in MapUtil. Is this the limit?

The official line is a maximum of 10 000 tiles and MapUtil follows that rule, although the engine will actually support a slightly higher value.

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Stefan Härtel]

Make it start either in 470 BC, when the Romans and the Carthaginians signed their first treaty-or how about in the 350s? This would also allow you to add an independent Egyptian civ. Because both Persians and Macedonians must later conquer it, you should create an isolated Egyptian city, so that the civ wouldn't be destroyed entirely and can return after the ascendance of Ptolemaios (and perhaps the death of Artaxerxes III, but that's not as important).
When the Romans appear, destroy the Egyptian civ when they have conquered the last city or so.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[St Leo]

BTW, if all land comes out as mountains, try substituting one of the darker greens for the ocean black.

------------------
St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Prometeus]

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 07-12-2000 03:43 AM Prometeus, I´ll place more trees there...

Be sure that trees are a lot, BeBro... Insubres celtic tribe ( who lived in eastern Piemonte and western Lombardia - for sure a lot of land ) had only 1200 iugeres of cropland... Sorry fo nuraghe, civ pic went corrupted .

St Leo, i need your hint about a ripoff series i'm developing; can i send you a few pics ( i have Eudora on my pc at the moment... )?


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Ave atque vale...

[Sloth]

My "vote" is still for an earlier date: the idea of starting with just one city intrigued me.
So...forget the Egyptians!!

[BeBMan]

Don´t worry about the Nuraghe, Prometeus, it was just an idea...

Stefan, currently I´m thinking of 396 BC (destruction of Veji) as the start year. This is close to the basic idea of V1.0, because Rome controlled some minor cities that time (for instance Alba Longa), but due to the map measurements (ähem...was heißt Maßstab), I´ll leave out these not so important cities (for the same reason I´ll leave out Ostia, and make Rome a coastal city), so that you have only Rome in the beginning.
A start in 396 BC would also allow me to include independent Egyptians and Persians. On the other hand, I would have to leave out the Hellenistic kingdoms after Alex the Great.
Therefore, my second idea is to start around 300BC with Romans, Carthagians, three Hellenistic realms, Mediterraneans and Parthians.
However, I like more the first idea...as you Sloth?
[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited July 13, 2000).]

[Sloth]

Hurrah for the first idea!

[Stefan Härtel]

"Maßstab" is "scale"

300 BC sounds alright... I'm checking the timeline right now... So the idea is to have only one city for the Romans, right? How 'bout 386 (Vae victis!), though?

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[Joseph K]

just a note for you, BeBro:

Ostia wasn't the main roman port until the emperor Claude. They used mostly Pouzzoles in the Etruscian land. So, it would be better not using Ostia as a wonder (if it came to your mind )
And about the timeline, 386 (just after the Gallic sack of Rome) would be great.
The first great city Rome conquered (apart from Veii) was Capua (in 340-320, I'm not sure)which played a capital role in the roman conquest as the "elites" of the two cities associated. Latium+Campania was the center of the Roman republic during the third and second century BC.
[This message has been edited by Joseph K (edited July 13, 2000).]

[BeBMan]

Joseph and Stefan, I have to say that your idea is the best! Thanks, this will be mentioned in the credits !
386BC is simply perfect: I can start with Rome as the only city, Egyptians will be included and the will be attacked by the still powerful Persians. Macedonia is still weak but has the chance to develope itself into the most powerful civ in the east. The Greeks have many cities around the Mediterranean and Carthage rules the western part of the known world. The last civ will be a "collection" of the mentioned Etruscans, Samnites and so on.

[St Leo]

St Leo, i need your hint about a ripoff series i'm developing; can i send you a few pics ( i have Eudora on my pc at the moment... )?

Sure, why not.

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[BeBMan]

Aah, I forgot: the end will be in 117AD...