Best PC WWI/II game?

[Jaguar]

What are the best WWI and WWII games you've come across? I haven't ever seen a WWI game, which is unfortunate because WWI is the war I find most interesting. WWII games, I know, are a dime a dozen. What's the best one out of them? What I am looking for:

Both sides playable

Real time battles that you command

Command of where the forces go on a larger scale as well as the individual battles.

Ability to command troops in real battles such as D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, or Somme, even if you can also rewrite history.

Not completely abstract. (as in I want to command Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs, and I want a visible difference, as well as a difference in ability. I don't want to command generic "tanks.")

For the WWII game, I'd like Pacific as well as Atlantic.



I'm not sure if there's a game that fits all of these criteria, but I want one with as many of these as possible.

[Dauphin]

The only WWI game that I know of is HistoryLine. Its an old DOS game, hexagon tile, TBS.

Not what you were after, but I would love to see it remade today - more so than Colonization.

[Urban Ranger]

World in Flames (SSI)
Third Reich (AH)

There's also Strategic Command

[lord of the mark]

cant think of a ww1 computer game - youd best try a wargaming site.

Classic board game was 1914. Released by Avalon Hill, it was one of first wargames to transcend "beer and pretzels" and integrate stuff used by military in war college training. Designers went on to found SPI, ultimate geeky wargaming company. Definitely important in the history of strategy gaming.

Game covers western front of WW1, august to October, ability to change starting deployments, German player can allocate between west and Eastern front (resolved off map via die roll) corps/division level of detail, card system for alternate history type scenarios. (WI Belgium allows germans free passage, WI Italy comes in on German side, etc)
Worth taking a look at.

[Craig P.]

Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord (western front) and Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin (eastern front)

It's a simultaneous turn-based format where you give your units orders then watch them play out over the next minute.

It only does small-scale battles, so you wouldn't get any large-scale strategy, but I think the modeling of units would provide all that you want and more (they do detailed armor penetration modeling).

Available at www.battlefront.com (with a downloadable demo, ca. 30 MB for both versions, though CMBB is newer and has more strenuous system requirements) (and note that this is also the site you go to for Strategic Command).

[DrSpike]

I second the vote for Combat Mission......a truly innovative game. Other than that I haven't played any wargames I really like.

[Kropotkin]

the Close combat series is pretty good imho but there's something about it that makes me lose interest after a few battles each time I play it.

[DrSpike]

The Close Combat series is very good, but AI is so poor at attacking manoeuvres it really guts the game IMO.

[Kropotkin]

Yes, it really annoys me when I play for an attacking side and they haven't managed to make it so that the defending side keeps stil until after my troops have been worn out and can't get any further. Even if the computer usually doesn't chose the best starting sites but it's a hell of a lot better to keep 'em there. To keep its infantry from crawling over roads and fields toward my machineguns when he's supposed to be on the defensive can't be that hard to do.

[Juggler]

I haven't played many WWII games but if I had to chose one it would be Close Combat (the russian front version). It was better than other versions I played in the series.

[Kropotkin]

Never liked the russian one, cc3, that much since the battles where hardly never even. Might have been realistic but not that much fun imho. Also, I like the strategic aspects of the game as I enjoy the extra dimension it gives to the tactical battle itself.

[Juggler]

I can still remember my first game (set in Normandy) which I played ages ago with a friend of mine. It took me some time before I could figure out what all those commands and different game features meant. after that, the game becomes much more enjoyable.

[Smash]

CC and Combat Mission.I also recommend these.CM is not real time.Its a kinduva turn based game.Pretty neat turn style actually.Sound is just awesome.

CC is very good.Not the best AI although at first setting them at par with you will seem tough.Flanking,ambushes,you name it,its there.Nothing better than sneaking up on a Panzer or something with a piat or flame thrower...BOOM!....I would start with CC2-ABTF if I could find it.Real time multiplay..very tense.

[Thrawn05]

I only played Close Combat, and even then just the demos. It was a little too much for me but I do like the level of envolvment needed, at least that's how I saw it when I tried playing it.

[Comrade Tribune]

Combat Mission is really good, if your thing are small-scale tactics; on a strategic level, nothing beats RD3R (Rise and Decline of the 3rd Reich).

You can download the computer version for free at the underdogs; don´t forget to download the patch as well. And the manual; you´ll need it. With the latest patch, ai is quite good. Unfortunately no pbem.

This is one of the best game designs ever; however, if you´ve never played the boardgame, don´t be surprised if nothing makes sense at first. It takes many hours to understand the intricacies of this game. It´s super-sophisticated, but like chess, you have to get the hang of it, and being good at it takes a lot of practice.