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Alpha Centauri / Call to Power: My opinion

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  • Alpha Centauri / Call to Power: My opinion

    Well, I figure you might as well have my opinion too, as biased as I admittedly am.

    When wading through all the marketing hype associated with both games (Alpha Centauri and Call to Power) I would caution you not to mistake "more features" for "better gameplay and balance". As someone who has been there, has written code for these games, and has also seen how the marketing hype game works, I'd suggest taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach and wait until you have the game in your hand before drawing your conclusions.

    Alpha Centauri will combine fresh new subject matter with the experience of the team which created both of the original Civ products. We know a lot about balancing these kinds of games and creating AI to make them challenging, and we've got a demo coming out this week to prove our point.

    Call to Power is being created by an untried team which has never done this kind of game before. I admire them for their ambition, but I've also been down the road they're travelling. They have a lot of interesting and fresh ideas, and they may very well pleasantly surprise everyone by pulling it off, but I'd suggest a "wait and see" approach. From a game design perspective, adding lots of new unit types is a prima facie case for the view that the game balance and AI will be worse, not better.

    As an analogy, what if some publishing company managed, through a complex legal settlement, to secure the "rights" to use the words "Star Wars", even though that company was not in any way associated with George Lucas, 20th Century Fox, Industrial Light and Magic, or any of the stars or cast of the original movies. And then that company announced that it was going to produce some "Star Wars Prequels" which would use the official Star Wars label and name, and that George Lucas could do -his- movies but couldn't use the name "Star Wars" any more. Both rival groups move forward with millions of dollars of marketing and hype.

    Which movies do you think would be really cool? My answer: possibly both but definitely Lucas'. Of course, run through the scenario above again but imagine that -you're- George Lucas and you'll have a pretty good idea about how -we- feel about all of this.

    I openly and freely admit my bias and vested interest in the matter, but I think it is fair for me to make the case that Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri is the game being created by the team which brought you your earlier favorites.

    Brian Reynolds
    Alpha Centauri Designer
    FIRAXIS Games


  • #2
    Ahhhh! Brian Reynolds, Brian Reynolds!! I agree with the man, I must wait and see about CTP, if I did come off as a brat, I do apologize, but this is what I was really meaning to say, its just that Mr. Reynolds is sooooo much more eloquent that me.

    Imran Siddiqui
    God Bless America
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • #3
      Hey cool, Brian! Hey, how come whenever Brian posts we say 'Hey, cool, Brian!'??

      Anyway, yeah I agree with you on the wait & see approach. Hopefully someone near me will let me borrow CTP for a couple days, & then I can test it out for a few & make my decision then. I will definately get SMAC first, because IMBO it looks like an excellent game, & I've participated too long on its forums to buy CTP first. It just wouldn't seem right to me.

      Nice analogy with Star Wars though...

      Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
      YYYH

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      • #4
        Brian: Well, you could just as easily use the 'Police Academy' series as an analogy - a follow-up by the original team would most certainly be awful, while a 'fresh' team could plausibly make something remotely amusing... I have no doubt SMAC (BRAC!) will be great though. The CTP developers are trying (to some extent) to re-invent the genre, which may or may not be successful. In any case, freshness is a goal in itself (as is competition), benefiting future productions.

        I certainly see see how you would feel less-than-happy about losing the rights to your own brain-child, but the CTP designers are not to blame for this unfortunate legal affair. To me, both games seem promising, though a certain amount of skepticism is always healthy...

        DCA,
        It may not be beautiful, but it sure is fresh (Tchaikovsky on Mussorgsky's music)

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        • #5
          What a coincidence. The first day I take an in depth look at Alpha Centauri, the designer posts on the civ forum.

          Before I actually looked at it, I thought the sci-fi element would turn me off, but there is actually a great story! The graphics aren't as bad as I remembered them either. It looks like I am getting this game before the reviews even come out.

          At first I was skeptical about CTP coming from a developer that had no experience doing a game like this. I am quite sure they are all Civ fans, and there isn't much of a way of screwing up a game that you love, so I will be buying that one the day it is realeased. Maybe I'm too trusting. *sigh*

          At any rate, at least us turn-based empire builders will have some games to play next year!

          Just my two cents!
          Eroberer

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          • #6
            Yikes, if only Sid and a few guys from Activision came along I'd think I had made it to paradise

            I'll have to agree, Brian, on the wait and see approach. CTP has potential and SMAC has the masters of the genre. They both look to be shaping up nicely, and I only have a few doubts.

            My doubts with CTP lie in the rather ambitious approach. Activision looks like they're trying to do almost too much with CTP. 3000 A.D.? Undersea and Orbtal Colonization/Warfare? Massive Unconventional Warfare? I hope LT John and the rest know they're getting into alot.

            As for SMAC, the faction system seems interesting (especially custom factions) but balancing it could be a problem (The Hive and Spartan Command look a bit on the too powerful for the early game side.)

            But of course.. guess we'll wait and see

            If anything, I hope they both are great games. It would be a shame if the great Civilization (or the new Aplha Centauri) legacy had a game which wound up being lukewarm.

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            • #7
              Personally, I'm rubbing my hands together with glee at the thought of a couple of new turn-based Empire building games...
              CVM INGENVO TRANQVILLITAS ANIMI

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              • #8
                Lets face it Civ:Call to power is probably not going to be in the same leage as Civ(but then again neither was Civ II)

                and (for now) we probably will not be seeing a true Sid/Brian Civ III(sigh)
                Untill we Do all we have is Emerialism, Civ:CTP/CIV TOT( I keep thinking Civ Tots, as in Civ ' tater tots(SIGH) we will have to make due with Civ:CTP CIV:TOT, Emerialism 2 and Advanced Civ(unles thats become vaporware)

                and so far none of the people who have seen Betas of Civ CTP think it stinks(at least up to around the year 2000 ad)
                (unlike Civ:TOT whitch seems to inspire some derition when you get past the "another sequal to CivII " in previews

                lets face it how many of us thought ST:TNG, STS9 and ST:V would tank befor the first episiode?(atualy I thoght Partic Stuart would be flying home to England with his tale betwixt his legs before the piolot aired, after all he had never even tried Situational drama TV befor)

                {PS. I'll give you ST:V untill they diched the 5Yearold for 7 of 9)

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                • #9
                  I don't know, SOMETIMES it's a lot better to get a fresh design perspective though. When you have a lot of experience you tend to try things that you see as safe, and hence come up with some sometimes generic material. On the other hand, a new group has the opportunity to try new things, bringing new perspective to a genre, and maybe adding enhancements that someone more comfortable in the genre might never have come up with, because they are following "the rules" of good game design. If you think about it, the team that made Civ had never really had much experience with these types of games either, and look what they produced. The truely classic games are usually those that make up their own conventions.

                  By the way, did I mention that I have a nephew named Brian Reynolds? True.

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                  • #10
                    Brian,
                    I don't understand why you'd want to knock CTP. Why start knocking the other company's product and building up an antagonism and rivalry? Of all the thousands of computer games out there, isn't there room for two only somewhat similar games to coexist in peace? The two games aren't even that similar: one is purely sci-fi, the other isn't. If both are good, most people on these forums will buy both anyways. Its not like there's lots of lies and slander out there to combat- let the games live or die on their own merits.

                    And why defend Microprose against Activison? Didn't you leave Microprose before all that legal wrangle? Microprose seems to have largely dropped the ball anyways in coming out with a post-Civ2 product so its no suprise other companies (like yours) are trying to fill the gap. In your analogy, your company is not ILM or 20th Century Fox, Microprose is.

                    You say "wait until you have the game in your hand before drawing conclusions" so why don't you follow your own advice? You are contradicting yourself because your bias is clear before CTP's in your hands.

                    I wish Firaxis well and Activison well too.

                    Harlan



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                    • #11
                      Brian, it seems like you are pulling an old marketing trick: slander the competition so people will think your product is better.
                      Even though your post was polite and subtle it isn't too hard to read between the lines. What was the point of "dissing" CTP? To attract people to your product instead isn't it?

                      When I saw your thread I thought it'd be about the technical difference (i.e. the different features) between the two games. I was quite surprised when all you tried to do was convert people to SMAC.

                      The Shah has spoken

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                      • #12
                        When did Reynolds knock on CTP?

                        He only said the truth, that CTP is being made by a fresh and inexpierenced team with big ambitions, and that SMAC is being made by the masters at the genre. That isn't slander or hype, it's the truth

                        He never said SMAC would be any better, just that from his analogy it has a good chance at it. The people who made SMAC made Civ and Civ II, they know what they're doing. He also said CTP has an good chance, but from a reality perspective, he's George Lucas and Activision is Steven Spielbergo (notice the "o" at the end.)

                        I don't think Brian knocked on CTP at all. Nor did he contradict himself. He's telling the honest truth.

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                        • #13
                          Octavian, (Ave Caesar!)

                          The whole point of a post like that is to be subtle... Check out the SMAC forums and you'll see that he posted the same message there. You'll also find that there are quite a few follow up posts from fanatics (and I do not understand this fanatical attitude. Perhaps they need to get out a bit more often...) carrying on about how the 'gods have spoken' and how crap CTP is/will be.

                          Another point, this is the computer games industry - there are no 'masters of the genre' the playing field changes far too quickly for that... Further, there's no evidence to say that because someone has done something well in the past they will continue to do it well.

                          Cheers,
                          Q.
                          CVM INGENVO TRANQVILLITAS ANIMI

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                          • #14
                            actualy Brian probably should not have compared himself to George Lucase, (after all can you list the 12 (not counting the "remakes" of the Starwars Trilogy, and the new Starwarsdue out next summer)movies that G. Lucas has directed and or produced since Starwars Return of The Jedi?



                            hmm thought not.

                            Lets face it, if C:CTP had simply been called Call To Power it would not have generated this mutch Hostilitiy, or publicity

                            (and if Brian had caled it Brians Civization, people at the time would have said "Brian who?")


                            (actualy some have argued that George Lucas was trying to snage some of the Star Trec Fans with his tital)

                            (incidentaly im suprised that the creatores of the origianl Alpha Centauri computer Game havet objected, but then Alpha Centari is probably not a Copywritable name)

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                            • #15
                              Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
                              Indiana Jones and the Lost Ark
                              Indiana Jones II

                              +many crappy movies akin to Magic and Colonization
                              Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

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