Popular games you have absolutely zero respect for

[DrSpike]

I said some players. Personally I think if the genre is ever to be anything other than mindless pap it needs some of the depth that you like and Imran doesn't.

I don't really have any objection to the more intricate Sim style games........they aren't a personal favourite for many of Imran's reasons ironically, but at least they are not Sunday gamer oriented.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How can a game be work?

If it has too much 'stuff'. Micromanaging Hell is work. This is why I don't like playing games like 'Capitalism'. A bit of micromanagment, or even options for micromanagment (sometimes I'll micromanage in a while in Civ2) would prevent certain games from feeling more like a chore.

Imran just wants a big sandbox where he can do anything he wants without having to worry about money or good city planning.

Yeah, because that is EXACTLY what SimCity2 was .

SC2 worked because it hit the right balance between macro and micro managment. SC4 has turned too far to the micro and has become, work.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike
So the only way Sim games can be made good is by adding layers of complexity that scares/bores some players. Therefore the genre is forever bouncing between simplistic mindlessness and micromanaging hell.

Isnt that to a great extent true of most strategy games?? There are some that are elegant and achieve strategic depth while remaining relatively abstract, but these are fairly few.

Heck, even some of the favorite RPG's around here have a huge amount of micromanagement.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

How can a game be work?

If it has too much 'stuff'. Micromanaging Hell is work.

Arent you one of the folks who really liked SMAC?? I found SMAC almost as bad for micromanagement as Caesar 3. At least when im roleplaying a Roman governor/mayor (the game really does get the structure of roman local govt totally WRONG) I expect micromanagement - when im running an empire on a distant planet i dont. Maybe i just never got far enough up the learning curve to trust using the SMAC governors, etc.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Isnt that to a great extent true of most strategy games?? There are some that are elegant and achieve strategic depth while remaining relatively abstract, but these are fairly few.

Heck, even some of the favorite RPG's around here have a huge amount of micromanagement.

To an large extent you are correct. I lean more towards accepting the micro if there is a good depth/micro ratio (TM).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Arent you one of the folks who really liked SMAC?? I found SMAC almost as bad for micromanagement as Caesar 3.

I found SMAC to not be that bad on micromanagment at all. I normally didn't do much 'customizing' of units, and played it much like Civ.

hen im roleplaying a Roman governor/mayor (the game really does get the structure of roman local govt totally WRONG) I expect micromanagement

Why? If I'm a Roman governor I expect the city planner to give me ideas which I reject or approve?

when im running an empire on a distant planet i dont.

If you look at the story, I'd imagine all the faction leaders were egomaniacal perfectionists.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Arent you one of the folks who really liked SMAC?? I found SMAC almost as bad for micromanagement as Caesar 3.

I found SMAC to not be that bad on micromanagment at all. I normally didn't do much 'customizing' of units, and played it much like Civ.

OK. It still seems like it had more micromanagement than Civ, but you may be right.

hen im roleplaying a Roman governor/mayor (the game really does get the structure of roman local govt totally WRONG) I expect micromanagement

Why? If I'm a Roman governor I expect the city planner to give me ideas which I reject or approve?

Well a real Roman governor ran a province, and left municipal issues to the local authorities, who were typically local notables serving for the honor and influence. In caesar 3 you're more like a mayor, which is a fiction (or an abstraction for the local notables). However taking this fiction, it makes sense that I will do micromanagement. Yeah, I suppose advisors (like in Simcity) would make sense, but then in Simcity they dont help you with actual layout decisions. And I suppose one could make the case that there WERE NO technical advisors - if there were Mayors, theyd be laying out blocks themselves. Certainly provincial governors got into some surprising minutae.

when im running an empire on a distant planet i dont.

If you look at the story, I'd imagine all the faction leaders were egomaniacal perfectionists.

I suppose one could justify the micromanagement on that basis. All egomanial to be sure, but obsessive micromanagers?? Mebbe, mebbe.

[Zero]

MMORPGs.
RPGs
99.8% of Single player games

[Skanky Burns]

You just named my favourite type of games.

[Dis]

has no one mentioned civ2 yet?

[Spiffor]

A popular game for which I have no respect at all?

gotta be Quake 3. Most overrated crap that has ever wandered the PC. Quake 3 is not a game, it is a mere graphic engine sold as a game. It is inferior in all regards to UT, except for graphics. I have never understood why the fanboys sticked to it

[DrSpike]

Because it's the best old style deathmatch game bar none, even almost 5 years after its release, that's why. Since this game is only MP (well you can use bots, but that blows) one can only really rate it on MP. Within the FPS community most hardcore players think of UT as a noobs game.

The various incarnations of UT are better SP games, but MP? No way.

[child of Thor]

Now...... 3D Monster Maze, there was a game

[Zero]

Originally posted by Spiffor
A popular game for which I have no respect at all?

gotta be Quake 3. Most overrated crap that has ever wandered the PC. Quake 3 is not a game, it is a mere graphic engine sold as a game. It is inferior in all regards to UT, except for graphics. I have never understood why the fanboys sticked to it

w00t!

Like Doc Spike said... Quake Deathmatch is the Best MP FPS mode ever. Whats wrong with revison of crappy MP mode that is Quake 2? Quake 3 achieved what Quake 2 couldnt, which is to retain the superb gameplay that was on q1 MP.

UT is good in its own way, Quake is god in its own way...
Its like comparing marvel VS capcom with Virtua fighter...

You just named my favourite type of games.

Oh well, go enjoy them.

btw, dont invite me over to your house to play games then.

[Adagio]

I've never tried Quake 1, but one thing is for sure: Quake 2 is much better than Quake 3... I think I've only played Q3 for a short time before I got tired of playing, while I've considered installing Q2 again... but I doubt it'll happen now that UT2k4 has been released...