All purpose Panzer General thread

[ErikM]

No, PG2 AI really does not cheat. If you kill AI reckons and keep your units out of AI visibility range, they will run their units into yours (getting a "surprise!" attack) all the time. It is easy to verify it - start Suomassalmi scenario as Russians and AI will kill a half of its army on the first turn.

In some scenarios, to help the AI, designers place AI "observation bunkers" in some far away places and would give them a spotting range of, say, 40. This will basically give AI a full map knowledge. But this is not an AI cheat - it is rather a scenario designer cheat. And I don't think any of SSI scenarios actually uses this.

AFAIK, AI can request elite replacements for its damaged units for free. And possibly it gets some extra prestige in some circumstances. Other then that, AI does not cheat.

[VetLegion]

ErikM, I've been reading the link you posted. Actally, I didn't know much of that stuff (and it is a wealth of info).

As for AI, I guess some situations I interpreted as cheats can be explained by enemy recons or flags I didn't see, but I am not sure if all can, especially the ones involving airplanes. I'll try Windsor or Salerno scenario as the Germans and see if I can catch any pesky fighters in positions they should not be aware of

[VetLegion]

OK, I think I have one. I'm attaching the save file. It is the autosave, just press the end turn button and see my fighter in the north get killed. It is 2 AM here but I have looked hard and as far as I can figure it out, my fighter should be invisible to all. How does it get killed then?

[ErikM]

Ok, I tried your download and your fighter does not get attacked Patch problems, maybe?

[Tamerlin]

VetLegion, I have downloaded the saved game and loaded it. After I clicked on the End Turn button the Spitfire indeed attacked the reduced fighter 3 hexes away from its starting location. I don't know what is the spotting range of a Spitfire but it does not sound unusual.

[VetLegion]

Spotting range of Spitfire is 2 AFAIR, so it shouldn't be able to see it by itself. There is a ranger infantry to the left (range 3) but it is even further away. There are few enemy units south, none with enough range to see my fighter. I also scouted around with the other plane to see if there are any ships near or something, and there are none.

ErikM, I have version 1.02 I believe (how can I check for sure?). Which one are you using? I presume you haven't moved other units around, since that may change the priority for the Spiftire.

[CerberusIV]

The version number shows up in the bottom left corner of the initial screen IIRC.

Does the Spitfire have a leader that increases its spotting range?

It could be that the AI is moving the Spitfire past where your fighter is (but not through the hex so no "Out of the sun") and chooses to shoot it when it blunders across it. That would explain why it doesn't always do so. The AI does seem to move air units randomly at times. The Russian fighters at Suomussalmi spend a lot of time out of sight towards the southern edge of the map for no apparent reason.

To be fair I think I have occasionally seen AI units that I should not have and maybe that works both ways but it is certainly very random if it does happen (some bug?)

[pg]

does the ai cheat in the earlier pg games(pg1/ag)? it seems like planes(fighters especially) do but i'm not sure.

i've been playing ag as british/american and been able to beat everything up till tunis pretty easily. tunis has been giving me a lot of trouble because of the strong german fighters which seem to always be able to get the first strikes in. i almost beat it last time i played it as the americans(playing as the americans seems to make this scenario much easier as you get way more and better units) but i goofed and didn't send enough british units up the long far right peninsula so i'll be trying again soon(i only sent an infantry/artillery/fighter). if i could have moved one unit one more time i'd have won. has anyone beat tunis with the british?

i also fooled around with the russians a bit and some of those scenarios are terrifying at first. it'll be a a real challenge to win all of those especially since ag seems to make your objectives secret. have to find a good faq.

i also found a place to dl pg2 online and took a brief look at it. are there any special commands or anyway to make things go quicker? the games seems to run like crap compared to the earlier pg games. moving units takes like 10 seconds each.

[lord of the mark]

ok tried Madrid again.

Got the full 1580 points, but stupidly lost my recon.

Tried again and got the 1580 points with units intact. BUT forgot to save when Poland first came up, hit the wrong button, and lost my chance to upgrade. DAMN this interface!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why cant it give me the chance to save when a scenario ends, before it opens the next one?????????????

[Garth Vader]

There is an autosave campaign save that is saved when you hit the end turn button.

That will get you to the last turn of Madrid.

[Garth Vader]

Oh and that Jensen cap stuff was interesting. I'll have to remember that I should give priority to upgrading my initial and prototype units, and that I shouldn't be stingy with the replacements.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Garth Vader
There is an autosave campaign save that is saved when you hit the end turn button.

That will get you to the last turn of Madrid.

Thanks

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
The version number shows up in the bottom left corner of the initial screen IIRC.

Does the Spitfire have a leader that increases its spotting range?

No.

I have checked my version and it is 1.02, but as far as I recall, not 1.02G or any of the player patches.

It could be that the AI is moving the Spitfire past where your fighter is (but not through the hex so no "Out of the sun") and chooses to shoot it when it blunders across it. That would explain why it doesn't always do so.

Ah, you may be on the money with this. We would have to know does AI have that kind of coding, or does it just remain stuck if it runs into something. I can't say from expirience.

I have seen some AI behaviour like that which could not be explained by coding. For example, a fighter may go after my damaged fighter as it can see the general direction I am heading, but it can't know if my fighter took a turn which planes do due to the nature of hex movement. So, it would be pretty pointless to implement a "pursuit" code in AI.

Anyway, I am just speculating. This game has been out for 7 years and played to death too, so if it is player consensus that AI doesn't cheat, I am inclined to believe so. I've seen it preform some pretty weird stuff, but it may be my imagination, plus coincidence... I don't know.

To be fair I think I have occasionally seen AI units that I should not have and maybe that works both ways but it is certainly very random if it does happen (some bug?)

I see units I shouldn't all the time. A bit like in Civ really, sometimes you get to see stuff supposedly under fog of war

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Garth Vader
Oh and that Jensen cap stuff was interesting. I'll have to remember that I should give priority to upgrading my initial and prototype units, and that I shouldn't be stingy with the replacements.

I didn't know about the Jensen's cap, though I was convinced something is messed up with the prestige system, since it sometimes awarded me with less then I earned.

It also pisses me off to know that all the careful effort I spend collecting all the flags in Sedan is probably a waste of time


Also, since I always considered AI cheats, I never bothered to put up airplane traps. All this, and I considered myself a good player

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by VetLegion
It also pisses me off to know that all the careful effort I spend collecting all the flags in Sedan is probably a waste of time

It is if you just hoard the prestige. I will buy at least 4 or 5 units during that scenario so I get to use them immediately and have them start to gain experience, rather than wait until going into Dunkirk. I didn't know about the cap but I will now be a bit more ready to take replacements during a scenario and to overstrength units.