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  • Lillehammer - In the west I would deploy one artillery (fH 18)and 2 infantry (stosstruppen) in the northern deployment hexes and 2 tanks (PzIIIE), a recon and an AD near the supply hex on the south edge of the map. Put the fH18 so it can move to 3 hexes from the Norwegian position on the first turn. Move the infantry right up behind it in transport and then forward on foot on turn 2 so that you have one right next to the Norwegians, one behind it and the artillery behind that. Your air units (I would only have 1 Me109E and 1 JU87B) strike on the east side of the map on turn 1 and fly west (position them so they can bomb then move on turn 2) so they can spot the artillery north of the norwegian infantry on turn 2 and your artillery can hit it. I find that usually the southernmost infantry will attack and take damage then move back so you can push your forward infantry into the town and destroy the other norwegian unit with a combination of artillery and airstrikes then infantry assault. If anything retreats your tanks push through and finish it off.

    In the east I would have one fH18, a Pionere and a couple of PzIIIE plus a recon and an AD with maybe a couple of other units (I usually have a prototype by then, often a sIG 1B from Madrid). Drop a fallschirm behind the artillery and just keep pushing hard, initially with the tanks to reduce the defenders entrenchment. Once you break through everything but the fallschirm drives NW. Tanks to the north of the lake, artillery, infantry and recon to the south. Artillery and tanks take the airfield (you should have the western airfield too by this stage so the British fighter can no longer resupply or repair damage) and your artillery sits on the shore of the lake where it can reach Lillehammer. Squeeze from both sides with as much artillery and airpower as you can manage.

    The fallschirm march east to block any norwegian advance from the village in that direction. If you have enough prestige for a second fallschirm then drop it on the village in the NE.

    You cannot afford all the units you need for Sedan to start with. You must overrun as many flags as possible to get the prestige to buy units as you go. You will need 2 fighters and 2 Stukas to start. The Stukas hit the 2 artillery units behind Sedan. I would buy a third recon to mop up the flags in the centre of the map.

    Sedan takes practice. IIRC I did summarise the basic plan I use in the AAR I did earlier in this thread.

    (Edited to correct my poor geography!)
    Last edited by CerberusIV; April 20, 2004, 04:58.
    Never give an AI an even break.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CerberusIV
      Lillehammer - In the west I would deploy one artillery (fH 18)and 2 infantry (stosstruppen) in the northern deployment hexes and 2 tanks (PzIIIE), a recon and an AD near the supply hex on the south edge of the map. Put the fH18 so it can move to 3 hexes from the Norwegian position on the first turn. Move the infantry right up behind it in transport and then forward on foot on turn 2 so that you have one right next to the Norwegians, one behind it and the artillery behind that. Your air units (I would only have 1 Me109E and 1 JU87B) strike on the east side of the map on turn 1 and fly west (position them so they can bomb then move on turn 2) so they can spot the artillery north of the norwegian infantry on turn 2 and your artillery can hit it. I find that usually the southernmost infantry will attack and take damage then move back so you can push your forward infantry into the town and destroy the other norwegian unit with a combination of artillery and airstrikes then infantry assault. If anything retreats your tanks push through and finish it off.

      In the east I would have one fH18, a Pionere and a couple of PzIIIE plus a recon and an AD with maybe a couple of other units (I usually have a prototype by then, often a sIG 1B from Madrid). Drop a fallschirm behind the artillery and just keep pushing hard, initially with the tanks to reduce the defenders entrenchment. Once you break through everything but the fallschirm drives NW. Tanks to the north of the lake, artillery, infantry and recon to the south. Artillery and tanks take the airfield (you should have the western airfield too by this stage so the British fighter can no longer resupply or repair damage) and your artillery sits on the shore of the lake where it can reach Lillehammer. Squeeze from both sides with as much artillery and airpower as you can manage.

      The fallschirm march east to block any norwegian advance from the village in that direction. If you have enough prestige for a second fallschirm then drop it on the village in the NE.

      You cannot afford all the units you need for Sedan to start with. You must overrun as many flags as possible to get the prestige to buy units as you go. You will need 2 fighters and 2 Stukas to start. The Stukas hit the 2 artillery units behind Sedan. I would buy a third recon to mop up the flags in the centre of the map.

      Sedan takes practice. IIRC I did summarise the basic plan I use in the AAR I did earlier in this thread.

      (Edited to correct my poor geography!)
      I dont think i have the prestige/units needed for the above going into Lillehammer. I may have to go back and start over in Madrid.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • Does anyone know how to take screenshots in Panzer General II? I tried the Print Screen and paste to Paintshop Pro, but I get a garbled image.

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        • Originally posted by VetLegion
          Does anyone know how to take screenshots in Panzer General II? I tried the Print Screen and paste to Paintshop Pro, but I get a garbled image.
          I suppose that it is because your PG2 picture is reduced so it fits the Paint Shop pro window. Enlarge your picture to 100% (if possible) and copy the part you are interested in so you can paste it in a new file.
          Last edited by Tamerlin; April 20, 2004, 10:27.
          "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

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          • Originally posted by lord of the mark


            I dont think i have the prestige/units needed for the above going into Lillehammer. I may have to go back and start over in Madrid.
            You should not be losing any core units at Madrid or Poland so unless Suomussalmi went badly wrong ordinary victories on the first 3 scenarios should allow the units I have mentioned. (All your main infantry and artillery should be in half tracks by now too. No trucks)

            It's a bit of a cheat but I would run through the first 3 scenarios and send you a save for the start of Lillehammer if you wish. That way you can at least try Lillehammer, and Sedan, with a decent army rather than slogging through the first scenarios again. Unless you want the practice.
            Never give an AI an even break.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CerberusIV


              You should not be losing any core units at Madrid or Poland so unless Suomussalmi went badly wrong ordinary victories on the first 3 scenarios should allow the units I have mentioned. (All your main infantry and artillery should be in half tracks by now too. No trucks)

              It's a bit of a cheat but I would run through the first 3 scenarios and send you a save for the start of Lillehammer if you wish. That way you can at least try Lillehammer, and Sedan, with a decent army rather than slogging through the first scenarios again. Unless you want the practice.
              I clearly need the practice.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lord of the mark


                tamerlin: The owners of this site do not allow links to the above site. Please edit your post, so this thread does not get deleted.
                In your Madrid (above AAR) you lost no core units, and req'd a bomber. How many prestige points did you end up with?
                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                Comment


                • Tamerlin, no it's not that. I use the "paste as new image option" and it sets the size depending on what is in the clipboard.

                  Comment


                  • Also, does anyone know how AI line of sight is calculated? I swear, sometimes it can see everything and once I had the same recon run into the same infantry guy (and get surprised! and damaged) five times. It would get damaged, go couple sqares back, refit and back again. Obviously AI cheats but I can't see a pattern.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lord of the mark
                      In your Madrid (above AAR) you lost no core units, and req'd a bomber. How many prestige points did you end up with?
                      I just did Madrid again. Requisitioning a JU87 cost most of the initial 500 prestige. I rushed it a bit and didn't play particularly well. In consequence all 3 German infantry units took damage and I had to take replacements for the Pionere and one regular. That ate into the amount of prestige I would otherwise have had.

                      I got a BV with a turn to spare, destroying all but 2 Republican infantry and taking every flag on the map. I finished with 1580 victory points and got a sIG 1B prototype.

                      That was enough prestige to give all 3 infantry units half tracks, PzII to PzIIIE, Ps222 to Ps231 and upgrade the artillery to a fH 18 with a half track. I also bought a PzIIIE and a Me109e and had 68 prestige left.

                      With that to use, Poland should be straightforward.

                      One of the few weaknesses of the campaign play in PG2 is that if you make a good start the rest of the campaign is much easier than if you start poorly and have to struggle to regain momentum. I've never been sent to Thermopylae (and am not interested in trying!).
                      Last edited by CerberusIV; April 20, 2004, 14:21.
                      Never give an AI an even break.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by VetLegion
                        Also, does anyone know how AI line of sight is calculated? I swear, sometimes it can see everything and once I had the same recon run into the same infantry guy (and get surprised! and damaged) five times. It would get damaged, go couple sqares back, refit and back again. Obviously AI cheats but I can't see a pattern.
                        I've never seen the PG2 AI do anything but play honest (unlike Civ3!!).

                        2 possibilities. Did the infantry have a leader giving it Forest Camouflage? (Not that I have ever seen this particular leader - it is one of the rare ones). More likely a pathing problem where the AI wanted to move past your unit but the pathing kept running it into the unit even though it could "see" it.

                        Working the AI spotting range is one of my key techniques and I regularly use it to sucker enemy air units onto AD's that are just out of sight. If the AI cheated you would never surprise it, yet it does happen fairly regularly.
                        Never give an AI an even break.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CerberusIV


                          I just did Madrid again. Requisitioning a JU87 cost most of the initial 500 prestige. I rushed it a bit and didn't play particularly well. In consequence all 3 German infantry units took damage and I had to take replacements for the Pionere and one regular. That ate into the amount of prestige I would otherwise have had.

                          I got a BV with a turn to spare, destroying all but 2 Republican infantry and taking every flag on the map. I finished with 1580 victory points and got a sIG 1B prototype.

                          That was enough prestige to give all 3 infantry units half tracks, PzII to PzIIIE, Ps222 to Ps231 and upgrade the artillery to a fH 18 with a half track. I also bought a PzIIIE and a Me109e and had 68 prestige left.
                          Interesting, I did Madrid, bought a JU87 never took replacements, took all the squares in a BV and left 1 or 2 infantry and I got a PzIVD proto and had 1580 to spend as well.
                          Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wan's apprentice.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Garth Vader
                            Interesting, I did Madrid, bought a JU87 never took replacements, took all the squares in a BV and left 1 or 2 infantry and I got a PzIVD proto and had 1580 to spend as well.
                            It is because of the "Jensen's cap".
                            It is explained in detail on PG2 forums here.
                            Basically, the value of your army cannot exceed the maximum value set by campaign designer (this is so-called Jensen's cap). If the total value of your army (sum of all equipment costs) + unspent prestige exceed the cap, you will not get a full award for the victory. One exception is that starting core units and prototypes do not count against the cap.

                            Example:
                            total army value = 1800
                            prestige = 200
                            cap for next scenario = 3000
                            victory award = 1000
                            Next scenario you will end end up with (200+1000)=1200 prestige.

                            But suppose that your
                            total army value = 2300
                            In this case you should end up with 1200 prestige, but you won't, because it will put you above the cap: (2300+200+1000=3500) exceed the cap value by 500, so you will only get an award of 1000-500=500 for your victory, and will end up with 200+500=700 prestige.

                            What this implies is that spending your 200 prestige on replacements in the above scenario is "free": it won't change the value of your army and you will get "reimbursed" because of the higher effective victory award.

                            Ie, in the above example
                            spend 200 on replacements
                            total army value is still 2300
                            2300+1000 (for victory) = 3300 exceed cap by 300, so your victory award is (1000-300)=700
                            You still end up with 700 prestige.

                            Another thing: as prototypes/starting core units do not count against the cap (they contribute zero to your total army value), upgrading them may be "free" in the long run, as you will be compensated for the upgrade cost by receiuving a higher victory award next scenario.

                            A bit twisted, I know, but this is how it works
                            Last edited by ErikM; April 20, 2004, 18:27.
                            It is only totalitarian governments that suppress facts. In this country we simply take a democratic decision not to publish them. - Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister

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                            • thanks this tells me what i should shoot for.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CerberusIV


                                I've never seen the PG2 AI do anything but play honest (unlike Civ3!!).
                                I find this impossible. You never had a situation where you attack an enemy fighter with your own, get yours badly damaged, then retreating your fighter somwhere in the middle of nowhere only to have enemy fighter trace it and kill it?

                                Enemy airplanes are actually the most cheating units, their bombers and fighters all the time simply know that you have a trucked artillery within their flying (but not spotting) range and they act accordingly. But not always. That is why I said it cheats but I can't see the pattern, when it does and when it does not.

                                2 possibilities. Did the infantry have a leader giving it Forest Camouflage?[/QUOTE]

                                No, I suppose it was a pathing error like you said.

                                [QOUTE]Working the AI spotting range is one of my key techniques and I regularly use it to sucker enemy air units onto AD's that are just out of sight. If the AI cheated you would never surprise it, yet it does happen fairly regularly. [/QUOTE]

                                What is the spotting range of deployed artillery? 2 hexes, right? I had enemy artillery spotting (and shooting) stuff 4 hexes away all by itself. How is that possible?

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