All purpose Panzer General thread

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You mean 40 core units plus 15 non-core?

I avoided saying that because I can't be certain exactly how many forces the largest battles were. The invasion UK scenarios could have a lot of non-core units depending on which one you activated. Again they were before the halfway point in the game, so your own core army would not be large.

I haven't got PG1&2 sitting around with a late-game save handy to fire up Kursk, Stalingrad, Invasion USA or one of the others to do an official count. I'm confident that there were scenarios with well over 40 units per side.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Grumbold
Well I thought it was PG2 but then I have replayed PG1 more recently.

No problem. I've been known to discuss games Ive never played

The two are very similar and both well worth playing. I wouldn't get Allied General, Pacific General or Star General confused with them, but one German scenario from another, tricky

There are of course allied campaigns in PG2 as well - one each for the Yank, Brits, and Soviets.

[Grumbold]

Wow! Looks like our favourite dawg has got PG3 SE. Time to check it out personally

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Grumbold

I haven't got PG1&2 sitting around with a late-game save handy to fire up Kursk, Stalingrad, Invasion USA or one of the others to do an official count. I'm confident that there were scenarios with well over 40 units per side.

IIRC the last PG scenario (invading the USA) allows for 50 core units and gives a dozen or so additional naval and air units as well. Allied General generally has smaller numbers of units, although the final US/UK invasion of Germany has a lot of units (but only 24 core).

In PG2 Kishinev is probably the scenario with the most units as you get a lot of Rumanian infantry and artillery.

The British/American/Russian campaigns in PG2 suck. They are far too easy and 6 brilliant victories out is 6 is easily achievable in all of them. The last German campaign, Defending the Reich, is the hardest. I did get as far as brilliant victories in the first 4 scenarios but had to restart several times to do it.

[DrSpike]

I have a question for the wargame fans here.

What's the attraction in SP wargaming? I often find that intricate TBS games are pants in SP even if they are great games, since the AI is always weak. Most wargames that I have seen are more intricate than a general TBS title, so surely this must be a factor?

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Doc
I have a question for the wargame fans here.

What's the attraction in SP wargaming? I often find that intricate TBS games are pants in SP even if they are great games, since the AI is always weak. Most wargames that I have seen are more intricate than a general TBS title, so surely this must be a factor?

For me it is partly the chance to try, however loosely, a historical battle and see how I get on, partly to play with the toys (units) and partly convenience. SP isn't anything like as good as a human opponent but it is there when you turn the computer on.

[Grumbold]

Like all SP games, they are there to entertain you for precisely as long as you want, whenever you want. Multiplayer games, even over the net, have to run to mutually convenient timescales and my lifestyle generally doesn't allow for that. I'd never manage to finish a game of Civ or PG against human opponents, yet these are the games I like best.

The PG series is a fairly good one for this. Its reasonably straightforward to get a standard victory in most scenarios but getting a decisive victory, maximising prestige and minimising casualties can be quite tricky.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Doc
I have a question for the wargame fans here.

What's the attraction in SP wargaming? I often find that intricate TBS games are pants in SP even if they are great games, since the AI is always weak. Most wargames that I have seen are more intricate than a general TBS title, so surely this must be a factor?

well first, its fun just to see the maps, the historical units (this goes for playing scens with historic setups, not for later scens in a PG type campaign) etc. Some of us are the type who love looking at maps of historical battles, OOBs, etc. A wargame is a chance to move those units around and see what happens.


And of course there are many ways of handicapping the AI. 1. shoot for a higher or faster victory level 2. Give some advanage to the AI (this of course may be ahistorical - but if youre interested in it as a GAME, after having enjoyed a runthrough as a history sim, this can work) 3. Dont play so obsessively perfectly. Play fast, fun and sloppy. I dont really want to consult a spreadsheet before every move. Its not fun. This also makes things a tad more realistic, since real commanders made mistakes, had their orders garbled, etc. And of course did not have the advantage of playing against an AI.


Also my impression is that AI's tend to be a bit stronger in TB wargames than TBS's like Civ. There isnt as much to do - no diplomacy, no choices of unit builds (again a PG campaign is an exception) the AI is built around the combat model - so the AI can be tougher.

OTOH I havent really played enough to know, but id be interested in others comments.


You also seem to assume that wargame = TB. While thats true for the 5 Star General series, and the overwhelming majority of wargames, its not true for all. Certainly here at 'poly we should all be aware of Sid Meiers Gettysburg, an RT wargame with a very strong AI.

[CerberusIV]

As LOTM suggested this as a general thread I decided to post up a report on my current try at the PG2 Blitzkrieg campaign. I am about to start Malta and the scenarios so far went like this.

Madrid - Requisition JU87B. Demolish Republican forces. Brilliant victory. Received a SiG 1B prototype - very useful.

Poland - Upgraded and requisitioned new units including Me109. Again went like clockwork, captured all locations and destroyed all but 1 Polish unit. Brilliant victory.

Suomussalmi - Added further units including AD. Northern attack problematic. Finnish unit nearly destroyed and my Pioniere badly damaged. Suomussalim went better, largely due to clear weather so I could use my air units. One Soviet infantry went walkabout and I had to use 3 Finnish units to pin it down. Unusually the Soviet armour and recon didn't try and cross the river to go south and west to steal the German supply hex. Surrounded the last objective. AI blew its prestige on a KV1 but could only position it on the small lake where a Stuka attack and repeated tank attacks destroyed it. Another brilliant victory.

Lillehammer - Added another AD and some paras. Rain to start. Dropped a para behind the artillery on the east side of the lake and broke through. On the west I used an air unit to spot the artillery, hit it with my own and waited. An AI infantry attacked my lead infantry and failed due to my artillery giving supporting fire. It then withdrew so I could move forward and take the first town. Dropped a para on the village in the NE and used another to block a Norwegian infantry moving in from the east. After that it was basically a pincer movement on Lillehammer with strong artillery support. Brilliant victory. Prototype 5cm PAK - used at Sedan then upgraded to Stug IIIB.

Sedan - Added a second Me109 and a second JU87B. Plan was one panzer division to drive west and then south and the other to take Sedan then drive south and west. A para drops to secure the town on the canal in the south and a recon unit mops up the flags in the middle of the map. All went according to plan. The objectives in the NW were not heavily defended and the French Char 1B in the SW never showed up. Brilliant victory. Lots of prestige so virtually at full strength going into...

Dunkirk - Northern group attacks NE then N to Dunkirk. Central group attacks N to take victory hexes in centre of map, then east. Drop a para behind the easternmost objective to take out the French artillery when the main assault eventually goes in. All went well in the centre and east of the map. One mistake though. South of Dunkirk is a victory hex occupied by a British recon unit. I failed to destroy it and it got pushed north onto the bridge. I destroyed it next turn but the delay was enough to prevent me taking Dunkirk in time for a brilliant victory so only an ordinary victory and no shot at Windsor 1940.

Pursuit to Tobruk - One group drives east across the desert, the other north. Time is too short to allow either to assist the other so each has to be strong enough to take its own objective. Resupply is crucial for artillery so best to get them onto rough terrain rather than sand. A recon unit takes the SW airfield and a para drop the SE one. All went OK apart from driving an infantry unit into a Brit MK IV light tank in the desert and having it reduced to half strength. Brilliant victory. Received a Sdkfz 7/1 as a prototype - useless as I have my full complement of 3 AD units, all with experience and there aren't enough deployment hexes in the next few scenarios to make any real use of it so I reassigned it and claimed the prestige points to use for something more useful.

Tobruk - Main force drives east straight at Tobruk. Succeeded after some hard fighting with air support. Second group goes SE to take Brit tanks and then objective. No problem. The Italians move south then try and sieze the airfield when the British tanks go off. Brilliant victory.

Now for Malta.

[lord of the mark]

nice AAR


I havent used AD or Paras so far.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


.

The British/American/Russian campaigns in PG2 suck. They are far too easy and 6 brilliant victories out is 6 is easily achievable in all of them. .

Oh?. I tried the brit campaign and had some difficulty with Salerno - but it was late, and i was sloppy handling the large numbers of units - and I havent gone past Sedan and therm, in the Blitz campaign, so im not familiar with a lot of the units. And generally still getting familiar with the game. Sounds like the allied campaigns will have less replayability than the German campaigns, though.

[Grumbold]

The German campaigns are definitely the major focus in PG2. To a certain extent I think that is preferable to producing 4 mediocre campaigns. I was entirely satisfied with the game just from the German one.

I've just started scenario 3 in the shorter Russian campaign in 3SE. The game is definitely more manageable with leaders not hogging up extra force pool slots as they rise in rank.

[ErikM]

Try Steve Brown's British Western Desert and Italy campaign. It is available here. Much better than default PG2 campaigns. His Russian campaign ("General Bistrov breaktrough Corps") is also very good.

It takes a bit of time to install them, but they are well worth it.

[lord of the mark]

BTW, IM currently playing Sedan.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by ErikM
Try Steve Brown's British Western Desert and Italy campaign. It is available here. Much better than default PG2 campaigns. His Russian campaign ("General Bistrov breaktrough Corps") is also very good.

It takes a bit of time to install them, but they are well worth it.

Brown posts on the EZboard mentioned upthread. He sent me the patch for PG2.

I dont usually DL user campaigns till ive gone through the original ones at least once.