Can't the US just buy the oil from Iraq and the hell with France and Russia and UN?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lancer
That was a pretty good one Mike. The longer winded you get the farther you have to go to twist things around, the better my pov seems.

Your pov is to run Iraq like a US colony, make the Iraqi people pay with their resources for damages inflicted on them by others in response to Hussein. After all, we freed them, they should be grateful enough to pay us for it. That's OK. I'll try to keep things to one syllable (oops) words if that helps?

[Lancer]

Oh, I don't understand what you're saying? I see. In that case one syllable may be best. Thanks too for letting me know my pov. :thumzup:

[Ned]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Congratulations. I have say to that in three and a half years on Apolyton, this is the single most absurd suggestion on a political issue I've seen. That is quite an accomplishment, and elevates you one step closer to the status of grand master troll.

Why thank you MtG.

Actually I heard on the news that the small criticism Powell, I believe, made of France today - saying that our relationships will be different in the future - set off a firestorm of speculation in France as to what we intended. There were speculations from whether we intended to impose sanctions on France or perhaps even declare war.

It is clear they know they have offended the US.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Your pov adds up to the same. We run their country now. If we "buy" their oil, we can only pay ourselves as trustee, since they have no banking system, and wouldn't control it anyway under our administration.

It doesn't matter if you're robbing the till. It matters if you're in a position to rob the till, and someone says you're doing it, and you can't prove otherwise because you're the one keeping the books too.

Why do you think the Iranians are already at work?

[Shi Huangdi]

MtG: The fact is, the US does own Iraq for the time being. We are the only government the Iraqis have, and so we are responsible for them. That means making sure their resources go to the best benefit of the people.

[Ned]

MtG, AFAIK, we are paying for everything in Iraq at this time. There is no revenue from anything..

As I said before, it seems critical to get their banking system going again, else nothing else will work.

I heard, but do not have a link, that we will pay Iraqi's in dollars and the dollar will be an officially recognized currency for the forseable future.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned


Why thank you MtG.

I love you too. :grin: :HeyMarkoswhenyougonnagetthesesmiliesworkingagain? :

Actually I heard on the news that the small criticism Powell, I believe, made of France today - saying that our relationships will be different in the future - set off a firestorm of speculation in France as to what we intended. There were speculations from whether we intended to impose sanctions on France or perhaps even declare war.

Must have been a small firestorm, and must take a real idiot to think we'd ever declare war. Or would we declare war against every nation in Europe who refused to give us overflight rights? (which would be every nation in Europe)

Sanctions? On what legal basis? How much do you think the US financial markets would **** their pants and yank the chokechains back on their boys in the White House and Congress if the US was to even suggest imposing sanctions without legal basis against a developed nation who is also (like the US) a signatory to virtually every international trade agreement?

It is clear they know they have offended the US.

So?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
MtG: The fact is, the US does own Iraq for the time being. We are the only government the Iraqis have, and so we are responsible for them. That means making sure their resources go to the best benefit of the people.

It also means we avoid taking actions that will play well for the propaganda purposes of our enemies. Getting their resources up and running on an emergency basis with our own companies is fine, as long as we're paying for it. A lot of people (not just on this forum) have suggested that we take their oil to underwrite our costs.

The basic points are simple - the biggest priority outside of humanitarian aid (which is being provided by lots of parties) is getting a functioning financial and administrative system working, so that the Iraqis themselves (even if it's our lackeys temporarily) are able to control the marketing of their oil and the receipt of the payments for it by the time we can get the oilfields fixed and operating at a normal level of production. That will be 2-4 months at least, depending on the area and level of production.

Second, the more we internationalize the rebuilding of Iraq, the less we can be blamed for any ****ups, and the more propaganda value we gain in the Arab world, while our enemies lose the same. Being able to manipulate the Arab street is what will give us the most long-term leverage on other states in the region. Our long-term goal is in the whole Arab / Islamic worlds, not just with Iraq.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
MtG, AFAIK, we are paying for everything in Iraq at this time. There is no revenue from anything..

Right now, we have no choice, because their fields are virtually out of production, so even smuggling revenues aren't available. The question is whether we expect repayment from their future revenues, and that will get us in more heat than it's worth, by being an Allah-send to our enemies.

As I said before, it seems critical to get their banking system going again, else nothing else will work.

Agreed completely, but we also need to get an exceptional degree of transparency and accountability into the system.

I heard, but do not have a link, that we will pay Iraqi's in dollars and the dollar will be an officially recognized currency for the forseable future.

That would make a lot of sense, since the Dinar is essentially worthless. And damn, I have a bunch, too.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ned
As to any French or German or Russian actions against any private company dealing in Iraqi oil, we simply provide the party a remedy against French and German assets in the US.

For complying with UNSC resolutions?

No, not even Cowboy Caesar is that stupid.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


For complying with UNSC resolutions?

No, not even Cowboy Caesar is that stupid.

The UN resolutions are arguably void ab initio because the sanctions were intended to punish Saddam's regime and were intended to benefit the Iraqi people. Since the reason for the sanctions is gone, the sanctions should be gone as well.

Regardless, if Congress passed such a law, providing a remedy against French and Russian assets if a private company were harmed by confiscations by French and Russia, I see the US courts enforcing it.

Outrageous actions are repaid with outrageous actions.

[GePap]

The problem with sucha coruse of action Ned is that, well, the Us is a debtor nation. We run our country using borrowed money, mostly from Europe and Japan. For the congress to attack Eueopean capital in the US would be of tragic economic consequences for this country..hey! why not! It would mean the idiots who came up with such a policy would not survive the elctions.

On the US as debtor:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/20/weekinreview/20FERG.html

As for the sanctions: they were not put agaisnt the Saddam regime but Iraq, and new admins are responsible for the acts of previous admins. The Us and UK stated that the WMD threat form Iraq warranted war. Well, the WMD threat form Iraq has not been removed yet, so obviously if it was enough for war, how can it not be enough for the continuation of sanctions.

[DAVOUT]

There are some american assets in Europe as well, and, curiously, even in France. Their owners would not like they be confiscated in retaliation.

[Ned]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
There are some american assets in Europe as well, and, curiously, even in France. Their owners would not like they be confiscated in retaliation.

Exactly. The French, Germans and Russians ought to stop their pissing and moaning about Iraq at once.

I understand that both the French and Russians on now calling for a suspension of the sanctions. This is a major step in the right direction. Obviously, someone, particularly in France, has calmed down.

[Ned]

[SIZE=1]
As for the sanctions: they were not put agaisnt the Saddam regime but Iraq, and new admins are responsible for the acts of previous admins. The Us and UK stated that the WMD threat form Iraq warranted war. Well, the WMD threat form Iraq has not been removed yet, so obviously if it was enough for war, how can it not be enough for the continuation of sanctions.

This is a real load of bull.