Can't the US just buy the oil from Iraq and the hell with France and Russia and UN?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Of course we can. We can also try to take the position on behalf of our new colony that prior contracts and debts they have with third nations are void.

We wouldn't be shooting ourselves in the foot wrt our position regarding Cuban nationalizations and contracts, because we're the only country embargoing Cuba, and nobody expects consistent foreign policy from the US anyway.

This is a great idea, Lancer. We buy the oil (or better yet, privatize the nationalized oil industry, and let contracts to US firms to develop and operate the oil fields, and just pay the Iraqis a royalty). We install permanent, or at least open-ended military bases wherever we want in Iraq. We void Iraqs foreign debts or contracts, even though there's no legal way we can do that, except by making Iraq totally dependent on our trade and largesse.

Then we tell the rest of those uppity A-rabs that this isn't about oil, it isn't a war on Islam, it isn't imperialism, it's really about WMD and human rights. Just don't visit any high-rises or promininent landmarks in the next 50,000 years.

[Ned]

I say, put it to a vote. If the UN votes no, so be it. But, I would then break relations with France and Russia and freeze all their assets in the US.

[Lancer]

Glad you like it Mike.

Seems I've tapped into some stong feelings here.

The Army found 600 odd millions of dollars the other day. That money is being put aside for the future government of Iraq. So, if oil is sold, just add the money made to that.

...and deposit the interest to my Swiss account...

[DanS]

Something similar was done during Saddam's time. Saddam sold the oil to Syria, which in turn sold the oil on the open market. Syria took a cut of the money.

[Ned]

In the interim, one of the first priorities is to get a banking system up and running in Iraq. The oil revenues can be deposited to the accout of the Iraqi government.

As to any French or German or Russian actions against any private company dealing in Iraqi oil, we simply provide the party a remedy against French and German assets in the US.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lancer
Glad you like it Mike.

Seems I've tapped into some stong feelings here.

It depends... Do you want to be an Islamic fundamentalist propagandist's wet dream by doing everything possible to not only piss off the arab world, and alienate most of the rest of the world to boot?

For what gain, exactly?

[Lancer]

Tossing the sanctions against Iraq buy selling oil to those willing to buy...and rebuilding infrastructure with the money is hurting Islam how? >>>Buying<<< oil from Iraq and giving them the money is giving fundamentalists a "wet Dream" in what way?

[NY Hoya]

Originally posted by Lancer
Tossing the sanctions against Iraq buy selling oil to those willing to buy...and rebuilding infrastructure with the money is hurting Islam how? >>>Buying<<< oil from Iraq and giving them the money is giving fundamentalists a "wet Dream" in what way?

probably because it helps him to score cheap political points

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
Right. France and Russia have been trying to get the sanctions lifted for years on the grounds that they are harming the people of Iraq. If either one of them gave a rat's ass about the people of Iraq they could introduce a resolution and have the sanctions lifted tomorrow. So now they say lifting the sanctions would mean the UN is not enforcing existing resolutions. As if they cared one whit about that when Iraq was asked to disarm. This is hypocracy of the highest order.

[Ted Striker]

(was supposed to be a thumbs up)

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lancer
Tossing the sanctions against Iraq buy selling oil to those willing to buy...and rebuilding infrastructure with the money is hurting Islam how? >>>Buying<<< oil from Iraq and giving them the money is giving fundamentalists a "wet Dream" in what way?

Let's say you buy that store where you work, and afterwords, I drive a truck through your store, then tell you "hey, good buddy, don't worry about that, you've got a nice store there, I'll bring some of my workers to load this stuff up and sell it for you, and after I pay my people for the cost of getting your stuff packed up and sold (hey, I'm not doing this for my health, you know, good buddy), I'll use the rest of the money to fix your store right up, good as new. Meanwhile, till I get done with that, I'll run things, but I'll keep you up to speed on how things are going, and let you know what you've got in inventory and in the bank. Don't worry about a thing, I've got you covered.

We don't need to "buy" oil from Iraq. Oil is a global commodity, you buy the particular grade from whatever shipping point is convenient. The first problem is getting it out of the fields anyway, and that'll take a lot longer to solve than sanctions will.

If we hire our own pet companies to start working in Iraqi oilfields (we've already started on this part), then we start playing the global oil market by deciding how much we buy and for what price, that plays with every oil producing and oil consuming economy in the world, and it doesn't matter if there's no immediate effect at all, we're controlling the Iraqi oil resources. Bingo! Try telling people it's not about oil. Even if you could sell refrigerators to Eskimos, you can't sell that one to anybody.

Then we take their money (held in trust for them, until we install a "responsible" government ), and we give contracts to our companies to rebuild their infrastructure, which has been trashed by two wars we fought against them, combined with sanctions for which we were the leading proponent, try to convince the arab street that this isn't about imperialism.

We want to fix their infrastructure and award the contracts for doing so to American and American ass-kissing countries' firms, then we can suck up the costs. If we want them to pay for it, then we can get out, turn the country over, and let them handle it.

The US has little to no credibility in the Arab world, or for that matter, in most of the world. The moment we start using Iraqi oil "in trust" and pork-barreling our companies with it, we start reducing what little credibility we have. Same thing with the US shutting international organizations or other countries out of Iraq - you control foreign contacts and foreign relations for your territories and colonies, not for sovereign nations. We're an occupying power, not lord and master, and that gives us far more obligations than it gives us rights.

Adam Smith - hey, nobody gives a **** about the people of Iraq, unless and to the extent that it coincides with a countries' own interests. It's just more convenient to say "for the Iraqi people" than to be honest and say "because we want to make a ton of money, and who cares about the rest of that crap."

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
I say, put it to a vote. If the UN votes no, so be it. But, I would then break relations with France and Russia and freeze all their assets in the US.

Congratulations. I have say to that in three and a half years on Apolyton, this is the single most absurd suggestion on a political issue I've seen. That is quite an accomplishment, and elevates you one step closer to the status of grand master troll.

[Shi Huangdi]

More recent news: France is calling to cease sanctions against Iraq! I am glad France is not following the immoral and cruel stance that some leftists are taking here on this issue. Maybe the US-European alliance does have some hope of being salvaged.

Hmm... I wonder if the pro-sanctions left will jerk their knees and follow France, or stand by their guns that Iraqi children should continue starving because they don't want handling Iraq to be easy for the US...

[Lancer]

That was a pretty good one Mike. The longer winded you get the farther you have to go to twist things around, the better my pov seems.

You do it like this:
I say, "I don't like cats".

You say, that because I don't like cats, I favor dogs, but not just dogs, dogs that eat cats. Bad dogs, the kind that chase mail men. You feel that my pro dog bias against mail men is bordering on racism, because many mail men are bringing checks to welfare people, many of whom you accuse me of believing are umm, orange. (I'd prefer not to get banned) Since racism is against the rules, you give me a weeks ban. BUT! I'm lucky. Had I said that I don't like snakes, it would be 2 weeks, minimum.

You make such stuff sound better, but essencially, it's the same. However there's something else, facts. You flash em out like 100 dollar bills. ...like there were 443 bitings of mailmen by dogs, but only three cats bit mailmen, in the lower 48 states, excluding Maine, where there are insufficient orange people.

After one of you twists of logic, I dread the thought of trying to untwine it, knowing that doing so will just bring on an even longer one.

:smile:

[Lancer]

Shi, I see on the tube, CNN, MSNBC, that "we need to undo the damage we've done to the alliances we've built up over decades, that president Bush is destroying...blah blah blah.

In fact, it's the French, Germans and Russians that threw away their relationship with us...and they are coming around. Two steps forward, one back...