Tell me what to think (the issue of gay marriages)

[Zero]

what he is worried about is challenging the traditional idea of marriage, not gay marriage really.

he says gay marriage is okay, actually, and I think he means it.

Speer, maybe the idea of marriage should be challenged. Maybe there are more than one right ways. And surely if we accept that the "traditional way" isnt the only right way, there will be attempts at experimenting with many wrong ways, but confining the only acceptable way into only "traditional ways" isnt helpful either. You conflicting over whether to accept gay marriage as right or wrong is a perfect example.

[DRoseDARs]

Hmm, ok those are THE concerns that I've heard time and again...and they're good concerns that need good, unbiased answers.

Personally, my feeling is that it's no one's business what two consenting adults do, but when children are involved great care must be taken. *Obviously nothing sexual* A gay couple must ensure the child understands the sensitivity of the situation. The teachers must also ensure that the child is kept from ridicule by other children by scolding those who make it their business. The teacher must explain that it isn't OK to torment someone just because you don't agree with them/their life or because your parents tell you to. If you want to talk to them about it, talk don't tease. If you still disagree/disapprove that's your business. As far as "gayifying" a child, there have been unbiased scientific studies that generally show no measurable increase in the homosexuality of children who have a gay parent than those who neither parent is gay. No, I don't have the links; the papers on these studies are probably behind the login screens of overly-expensive scientific journal websites beyond my reach.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Calc II knows what I'm saying...

Asher:

I'm not concerned with rights... i'm concerned with the good of the general society and the re-creation of loving families... re-read what Calc said as that's my position

It's bull****, again, because it's ridiculous.

We should stop gay people from getting married because you think it might lead to other forms of marriage which you think might be harmful?

Here's the problem: Marriage is too easy to get into for heterosexuals, not easy enough to get into for homosexuals. And even when you're in a marriage, it's the heterosexual white rednecks that beat the **** out of their kids in a drunken rage, not the gay couples.

If you want to save the family, first preach about tolerance and understanding. Teach sympathy, sensitivity, as well as survivability.

Don't give your kids bad examples by shunning segments of society and depriving them of equal rights, despite what you claim is your "rationality" behind it.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Asher

It's bull****, again, because it's ridiculous.

We should stop gay people from getting married because you think it might lead to other forms of marriage which you think might be harmful?

Here's the problem: Marriage is too easy to get into for heterosexuals, not easy enough to get into for homosexuals. And even when you're in a marriage, it's the heterosexual white rednecks that beat the **** out of their kids in a drunken rage, not the gay couples.

If you want to save the family, first preach about tolerance and understanding. Teach sympathy, sensitivity, as well as survivability.

Don't give your kids bad examples by shunning segments of society and depriving them of equal rights, despite what you claim is your "rationality" behind it.

I think I explained it much nicer and clearer in my recent post.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Asher
And even when you're in a marriage, it's the heterosexual white rednecks that beat the **** out of their kids in a drunken rage, not the gay couples.

Give it time, it'll happen...

It's Human nature.

[Q Classic]

as nice as it would be to place restrictions on who gets to breed, it would also be morally unconscionable.

evil people will always brutalize children, be they homosexual adults or heterosexual adults. (they are not parents. a parent is someone who would take care of their children, not abuse them. the cretins that do are no more than biological source material.)

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Asher

It's bull****, again, because it's ridiculous.

We should stop gay people from getting married because you think it might lead to other forms of marriage which you think might be harmful?

Here's the problem: Marriage is too easy to get into for heterosexuals, not easy enough to get into for homosexuals. And even when you're in a marriage, it's the heterosexual white rednecks that beat the **** out of their kids in a drunken rage, not the gay couples.

If you want to save the family, first preach about tolerance and understanding. Teach sympathy, sensitivity, as well as survivability.

Don't give your kids bad examples by shunning segments of society and depriving them of equal rights, despite what you claim is your "rationality" behind it.

Asher, I have to tell you, your whole post is funny.

First you talk about hetero white rednecks beating the **** out of their children, then you say don't set bad examples by shunning segments of society.

You have to treat everyone equal, including the redneck, or you treat no one equal.

You are stereotyping rednecks just as much as you claim Albert is stereotyping homosexuals.

I thought you were above that.

ACK!

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Asher, I have to tell you, your whole post is funny.

First you talk about hetero white rednecks beating the **** out of their children, then you say don't set bad examples by shunning segments of society.

You have to treat everyone equal, including the redneck, or you treat no one equal.

You are stereotyping rednecks just as much as you claim Albert is stereotyping homosexuals.

I thought you were above that.

ACK!

Was the wink too subtle?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Asher

Was the wink too subtle?

Pardon me, apparently it was.



ACK!

[Al B. Sure!]

Calc II:

I'd personally prefer not to risk straying from the tried and (generally) true method of having nuclear families...
maybe there's other working ways but i dont want to risk there bein ways that dont work...


Asher:

so you're saying that my concerns are illigitimate because people's rights are above the percieved good of society... maybe you're right but right now I'm not conerned with rights so thats not what i'm debating

[Asher]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Asher:

so you're saying that my concerns are illigitimate because people's rights are above the percieved good of society... maybe you're right but right now I'm not conerned with rights so thats not what i'm debating

You don't think people's rights are fundamentally connected with the "good of society"?

[chequita guevara]

You think dead beat fathers are something new? This is an American tradtion. Men who didn't like how things were going in their family (and women too for that matter) often packed up and headed out West and started new ones. People claimed to be married who never were.

Learn some of your country's history.

[Frogman]

No one's jumped up and down screaming and Bible thumping yet? The Bible is quite clearly against this sort of thing so there will always be a segment of the population who will be against same sex marriages and same sex couples adopting children.

A good friend of mine is in a lesbian relationship, they went to China (where everything comes from) to adopt a little girl. As far as I can tell, its one lucky little girl.

What we really need is some sort of test people have to pass to have children. If we're going to allow any drugged out, mentally unstable, poverty stricken but heterosexual teenagers to have kids, there is no moral ground to stand on to prevent homosexual couples from adopting. The same thing could be said for marriage.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Calc II:

I'd personally prefer not to risk straying from the tried and (generally) true method of having nuclear families...
maybe there's other working ways but i dont want to risk there bein ways that dont work...

I'm a pessimist, so I'd say that the method we've got for raising children now, while certainly tried a good number of times, is not true. I'd say that the majority of people in the world, or at least everyone I know, is flawed in some way, and in a good number of cases, in major ways. But as I said, I am of the belief that the fundamental way in which we live is flawed, so my opinion isn't necessarily valid.

Anyhow, eventually, once gays are seen as the same thing as everyone else, gay marriage will not be seen as some strange alternative, but as the same thing as all other marriages, and so it will not encourage even more perversion. And those other perversions you speak of, whatever they may be, will probably die out once people find out they really are just stupid and flawed.

There will always be people that do stupid things, that is, until we change the way in which we raise children and begin to teach logic, reason, and rationality instead of a host of ingrained morals without the reason for those morals. But I've gotten away from the point.

My point is (I'm tired btw) gays are cool, gays are people, let 'em get married, because eventually it will be normal and everyone will be alright again.

[Boris Godunov]

Why would someone want to prevent me from making a legal commitment to someone I love to spend my life with him?

Why would someone else's commitment to their own partner be somehow lessened by my being allowed the above?

Those are my two questions.