Just when I was hoping that peace could be at our sights....

[CyberGnu]

I have serious problems seeing any real positive development in this as long as both Arafat and Sharon has substancial power.

Well, if only because Israel has managed to convince the world that Arafat can't be trusted. Arafat is a pragmatic man - peace is his only chance to stay in power.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by CyberGnu


Januari 1996.

So, an election 8 years ago still seems valid to you? Hitler had the same electoral legitimacy.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by CyberGnu

Arafat is a pragmatic man - peace is his only chance to stay in power.

Just a short while ago, similarly-minded pundits were posting the same thing here about Saddam Hussein.

[CyberGnu]

Kroppie, is there a search function on that site? I clicked on the "Palestinian Authority" link in the upper right corner, but I couldn't find your quote.

[Az]

Legitimately elected dispite the fact that the UN condemned him as the architect of the widely reviled Sabra and Shatile refugee camp massacres two decades ago. Not exactly the person I'd want in charge of *any* government.

since when does the expressed opinion of a bunch of interested nations became true?

[Edan]

Originally posted by DanielXY
In other words he is not the right person for diplomatic stuff = unlikly to achieve a favorable result. No?

You do realize that it was Sharon who convinced Begin that it was worth evacuating the settlements in exchange for peace with Egypt during the Camp David peace talks, right? Or was that not a favorable result?

[Az]

from a clearly utilitarian pov, it was a grave crime, btw.

These lands now lay abandoned. They could thrive.

[Dinner]

Arafat has always been a roadblock to peace and he will always be a roadblock to peace. He could have signed a permanent peace treaty any time in the last five years but he's always-torpedoed peace every chance he's gotten. Why? Because he's not interested in peace; he's interested first in being absolute dictator of the Palestinians and second, deep down, he still believes that Israel can be destroyed demographically if he just keeps delaying peace indefinitely.

As long as Arafat remains the dictator of the Palestinians then the Palestinians will remain a people on the wrong side of history.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Januari 1996.

We're talking about real elections not fancied up Arab "elections" where the opposition gets no air time on the media and where thugs brutalize anyone who dares to speak out against the dictator.

[CyberGnu]

So, an election 8 years ago still seems valid to you? Hitler had the same electoral legitimacy.

If the nation is effectively occupied after the last election, of course.

For example, Johan Nygaardsvold was democratically elected in 1938, and was Prime Minister of Norway (partly in exile) until 1945. That's 7 years. Yet he was clearly the democratically elected leader elected.

[CyberGnu]

Arafat has always been a roadblock to peace and he will always be a roadblock to peace. He could have signed a permanent peace treaty any time in the last five years but he's always-torpedoed peace every chance he's gotten. Why? Because he's not interested in peace; he's interested first in being absolute dictator of the Palestinians and second, deep down, he still believes that Israel can be destroyed demographically if he just keeps delaying peace indefinitely.

Yeah, right... Who is it that is currently working incredibly hard to kill the soon-to-be-announced peace plan, and who has agreed to accept the plan without any changes?

[CyberGnu]

Spenser:

Just a short while ago, similarly-minded pundits were posting the same thing here about Saddam Hussein.

Who, exactly?

I was under the impression that Saddam would give up his WMD's, as the only way to stay in power. Lo anc behold, that's exactly what he did, apparently.

So who are the "pundits", exactly?

[CyberGnu]

Oerdin:

We're talking about real elections not fancied up Arab "elections" where the opposition gets no air time on the media and where thugs brutalize anyone who dares to speak out against the dictator.

How is it the old parable goes? "Better to be silent and thought an idiot..."

Anyway. I suggest reading newspapers on a daily basis. Arafat's election was certified by the Carter Foundation, on the request of the UN.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Yeah, right... Who is it that is currently working incredibly hard to kill the soon-to-be-announced peace plan, and who has agreed to accept the plan without any changes?

Publicly Arafat always says he'll accept what ever peace plan is put forward by the Americans but some how he always finds objections to signing the treaty when it is time to do so. What is important is what he does not what he says he'll do.

The guy is a serial liar.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Oerdin:

How is it the old parable goes? "Better to be silent and thought an idiot..."

Anyway. I suggest reading newspapers on a daily basis. Arafat's election was certified by the Carter Foundation, on the request of the UN.

I obviously read papers more often then you do since I can remember the Carter Foundation certify that the election before last in Zimbabwe was relatively free from the typical ballot stuffing.

Of course what the foundation didn't talk about was how Mugube only let the opposition run their ads on state radio late at night when no one else was listening.