Just when I was hoping that peace could be at our sights....

[Az]

Arafat Rejects new Abu Mazen Cabinet

Just when things started to look the way I was hoping, Sharon pledging to remove settlments, and Palestinians willingly surrendering weaponary in Jericho, the new palestinian government, full of reforms, is being torpedoed by Arafat.

Just as the Roadmap for Peace is about to be published ( though of course, with Israeli complaints )...


damn.

[Shi Huangdi]

Well, Arafat has once against ****ed over the Palestinians....

[gsmoove23]

Its hardly a brick wall, more likely a bump. Time will tell.

[Master Zen]

I'm no fan of Israeli policy, but Arafat is IMO the biggest obstacle to Palestinian freedom. The guy should just go, his time is over, he has shown to be a good rebel, but a poor manager.

[gsmoove23]

I think these words have much more dire implications for peace...

Haaretz Interview with Ariel Sharon

Haaretz - What are the main reservations?

Ariel Sharon - "The main issue is security. How terror will be handled. There is no difference of opinion in this matter but there is a difference in the wording.

The second matter is that of the implementation of the stages. Our understanding with the United States is that the will be no transition from one stage to the next without the completion of the previous stage. The determining factor is not the timetable but the execution. That is why the issue of the stages is of paramount importance to us.

Our third reservation concerns the right of return. This definitely poses a problem.

H - Is your willingness to recognize a Palestinian state conditional on the Palestinians backing down from their demand for the right of return?

A - "If there is ever to be an end to the conflict the Palestinians must recognize the Jewish people's right to a homeland and the existence of an independent Jewish state in the homeland of the Jewish people. I feel that this is a condition for what is called an end to the conflict. This is not a simple thing. Even in the agreements we signed with Egypt and Jordan this was impossible. That is why they did bring about an end to the conflict. They are important agreements, very important, but they did not bring about an end to the conflict. The end of the conflict will come only with the arrival of the recognition of the Jewish people's right to its homeland.

H - That has to do with the end of the process. But do you think that the compromise on the right of return has to come beforehand?

A - This issue must be clear right from the outset.

H - Would you be willing, perhaps as a gesture to the Americans, to freeze construction in the settlements or to evacuate illegal outposts as part of the first stage?

A - "That is a sensitive issue. In the final stage of negotiations it will be brought up for discussion. We don't have to deal with it just now."

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages...ID=0&listSrc=Y

[Az]

what's so dire about that? he doesn't want to talk about it, because hawks bug him, so he'll put a lid on it for now.

[Urban Ranger]

There are people more hawkish than Ariel Sharon

[Az]

Ariel Sharon is not a hawk, he's a shrewd politician. He tries to get as good a deal for Israel as possible, but I don't think he has actual great ideological leaning, except the best for the state of Israel. of course, in an enviroment of competition, that means a ****ed up deal for the palestinians.

[DanielXY]

In other words he is not the right person for diplomatic stuff = unlikly to achieve a favorable result. No?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Azazel
Ariel Sharon is not a hawk, he's a shrewd politician. He tries to get as good a deal for Israel as possible, but I don't think he has actual great ideological leaning, except the best for the state of Israel. of course, in an enviroment of competition, that means a ****ed up deal for the palestinians.

You serious? He didn't start as a politician, he started as a general or something.

[Az]

actually, from the Israeli pov, he's just the right type of person for dimplomatic stuff. He has allied himself with the US, and in the meanwhile, tried to pursuit policies that suited Israel against the palestinians. He knows, though, that Israel cannot rule over the palestinians, as he said in that interview, so he's just going for as good a deal, as possible, and in the same time, stemming all palestinian hopes for the destruction of Israel, by making a brick wall on the right of return to Israel, and demanding an end to conflict as a part of the final peace plan.

I consider the palestinians' future too, so I think he's going too far in his demands, but he's definetly trying to get the best deal for Israel.

[Az]

You serious? He didn't start as a politician, he started as a general or something.

Last time I heard, people don't start as generals, they usually start as soldiers.

Seriously, though, being in the army doesn't make one an idiological "settler". Settlers are very often at odds with the military, and the military establishment is not interested in the settlements nor it was their ideological parent.

Also, the guy was in politics for more than 25 years now. He's a very smooth player. If there is one thing I cannot forgive him is his lying to the Begin in the 80s.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


You serious? He didn't start as a politician, he started as a general or something.

You have to remember, unlike most arab leaders, Sharon was legitimately elected. That implies that a lot of Israelis support his policies, or he would be out. If you remove him (as so many here would like to see), the electorate would send up another like him.

You can change a dictatorship's policies by removing the dictator. You can't change a democracy's policies the same way.

[DanielXY]

Hm, so you really dont want someone else as head of state?

[The Mad Monk]

I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is that folks are fooling themselves if they think that Israeli policy is only because of Sharon, and that if only Sharon would go away, all would be right with the world.

You have to convince Israel's citizens that there is a better way, and you won't do that by trying Sharon for war crimes in the Hague, or assasinating him, or otherwise forcibly removing him from power.