Dancing in the streets, part Deux!

[Ned]

As to what the looters are doing: I have seen live reports from embedded reporters who report largely the very same things as the interveiwed looter.

Al Jazeera and other anti-American press are reporting the looting in a very different way, making it seem as undirected lawlessness. There of course may be some of that, but the majority of the looting is directed and politically motivated.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
DinoDoc, The day Chirac admits he was wrong is the day the wounds begin to heal.

The wounds will never begin to heal then Politicians rarely admit they were wrong, and Chirac especially is a champion of pretending having done the right thing in all circumstances.
If you listen to his speeches, you'll understand what an escape artist is

OTOH, it has never been a mystery in France that Saddam is a bloody tyrant and torturer. His deeds weren't prime time every day, but only a few lunatics and extremist pro-Arabs thought otherwise.

[Menlas]

Originally posted by Ned
It is welcome, though, that the French people are beginning to reconsider whether the fall of Saddam was good for the people of Iraq. They may begin to question why their government and their press never before reported the truth about Saddam and his barbaric regime.

Yes, we were not aware about how barbaric saddam's regime was. And we never thought that "the fall of Saddam was good for the people of Iraq".
France loves Saddam blah blah blah... always the same crap Ned.

The reasons to be against this war have been said hundred times on this forum, but i guess it's like talking to a wall.

[DinoDoc]

Spiffor: What led to the change of heart in the French media?

[Menlas]

Originally posted by Spiffor

The wounds will never begin to heal then Politicians rarely admit they were wrong, and Chirac especially is a champion of pretending having done the right thing in all circumstances.
If you listen to his speeches, you'll understand what an escape artist is

Hehe, you have a point there Spiffor

The day Chirac admits he was wrong is the day Rumsfeld learns diplomacy
Not something that will happen tomorrow

[gsmoove23]

Most of the american stations (except fox, don't watch it) are reporting lawlessness all over. I'm american dude, watchin the same stuff you do.

[Hueij]

Hah! The Germans and French are allies no more.

Oh man, and America is wondering why we begin to reconsider our relations with the US... Keep it up Ned.

[Spiffor]

DD :
I don't know, but I assume the quick fall of Baghdad, and the collapse of the regime went against the grim predictions. For the two first weeks of the war, a good chunk of the coverage was about the stiff resistance from the Iraqi army down south, and the transformation of Baghdad into a fortress.
The fact that Baghdad fell, with much less blood than expected, was a relief and a joy.
However, the French media has always been skeptical, even the very day of Baghdad's fall : pictures of worried or angry Iraqis were shown along the cheering ones.
Today, I have seen many pictures of the scenes of anarchy and looting in Baghdad, and reports on neighborhood militias, but I've also seen an 'exclusive' (dunno if the exclusivity is worldwide or Francewide) report about Baghdad's empty torture center.

Note : by "the French media", I only mean France2, the big public channels whose info is more liberal than its private counterpart (despite not being extremistic). I am almost not exposed to the rest of my media, since I spend most of my time in front of the computer.

Another explanation could be the massive presence of French journalists in Baghdad, who could have personally felt the collapse of the regime and witnessed the scenes of joy in the streets.
Besides, we've seen many pictures from the Iraqi propaganda (at least on France2), so I suppose it was part of the deal not to criticize Saddam in exchange of a bed in the Palestine Hotel.

[Ned]

Originally posted by gsmoove23
Most of the american stations (except fox, don't watch it) are reporting lawlessness all over. I'm american dude, watchin the same stuff you do.

gsmoove, I will tune in CNN and see what they're reporting and get back to you.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Menlas




Yes, we were not aware about how barbaric saddam's regime was. And we never thought that "the fall of Saddam was good for the people of Iraq".
France loves Saddam blah blah blah... always the same crap Ned.

The reasons to be against this war have been said hundred times on this forum, but i guess it's like talking to a wall.

Yeah, containment would work. Therefore, war was not justified because it was not of "last resort."

Can't you see that this argument about "last resort" would have meant that the Iraqi people will continue to suffer indefinitely under Saddam Hussein, American and British forces would have to stay committed in the area, potentially forever, with increasing Arab hostility to our very presence. If French troops were there maintaining the containment, I would not have objected so strongly to the French argument.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Hueij

Hah! The Germans and French are allies no more.

Oh man, and America is wondering why we begin to reconsider our relations with the US... Keep it up Ned.

I suspect we will formalize our new relationship with France and Germany in due course.

[SlowwHand]

What all need to remember about Hussein, Blix, and the U.N.
It wasn't the responsibility of the U.N. to DISCOVER WMD.
It was Hussein;s responsibility to prove he DOESN'T have them.

RAH, your analogy in another thread, about Blix, alluded to "finding Hoffa".
That's not the case. Poor analogy.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by Ned
It is welcome, though, that the French people are beginning to reconsider whether the fall of Saddam was good for the people of Iraq. They may begin to question why their government and their press never before reported the truth about Saddam and his barbaric regime.

The regime was never the real question, was it? The question was regarding the legality of an invasion. As the watchful observer might have noticed this war wasn't started to free the iraqi people at all.

As for you living in a closet the last twenty years doesn't mean the rest of the world has. That the Iraq was a friend of both France and the US for its position against Iran is a shameful spot on both countries governments but that doesn't mean people in general didn't know he was a brutal dictator. Considering your past trackrecord on what's going on in other countries I would like to know exacly what you base your information about the press in France during the last couple of decades.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Hueij

Hah! The Germans and French are allies no more.

Oh man, and America is wondering why we begin to reconsider our relations with the US... Keep it up Ned.

Sorry, Hueij.
The USA has saved France's bacon many times.
Screw the Germans. Screw France. Screw Russia.
Half-steppers, one and all.

[Kropotkin]

Some people just seems to have such a naive and emotional outlook on the world of international politics. Oh well, what is to be expected....