Dear Leader Kim visited China secretly

[Pekka]

Got it on AFP news service:

" Kim Jong-Il visited China, won nuclear crisis backing -- report (11/04/2003)

SEOUL (AFP) North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il paid a secret visit to China last month, shortly after the start of the war in Iraq, according to a US-based global intelligence consultancy citing Russian intelligence sources.
During his visit, the reclusive Kim met new Chinese President Hu Jintao, who said China would not "stand idle" if relations deteriorated further between Pyongyang and Washington, according to Strategic Forecasts.
The visit occurred during a 50-day period which ended last week and during which Kim, 61, disappeared from public view in Pyongyang, the report said.
North Korea is engaged in a standoff with the United States over its atomic weapons ambitions, with Washington demanding the Stalinist state scrap its nuclear programmes before it enters into dialogue.
South Korean officials said they were unable to confirm the visit, which Strategic Forecasts said succeeded in healing a rift between Pyongyang and Beijing over Beijing's detention in October of Yang Bin, a Chinese citizen chosen by North Korea to head a proposed new economic zone at Sinuiju on the border with China."


Lovely.

[Pekka]

Oh and link http://www.afp.com/english/newsml/st....msimeiua.html

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Dear Leader Kim visited China secretly

Originally posted by Pekka
according to a US-based global intelligence consultancy citing Russian intelligence sources.

This is excellent.

[ravagon]

During his visit, the reclusive Kim met new Chinese President Hu Jintao, who said China would not "stand idle" if relations deteriorated further between Pyongyang and Washington, according to Strategic Forecasts.

Surely the NK's can't have been stupid enough to take such wording as a green light ...
Doesn't actually say which way China would jump.

[CerberusIV]

I can understand China tolerating NK playing games with the US and irritating the White House. I find it hard to believe that they really want a nuclear armed unstable dictatorship on their border, particularly since it will hardly encourage economic investment in southern China.

[Sava]

NK is a very close Ally of China. Whether China makes it official or not, NK is like a little brother to them. Bush might be able to bully smaller, less powerful countries. But NK and China won't put up with his "axis of evil" type bullsh1t. I just hope that dealing with this situation holds off until after Bush is voted out in 2004. He'd mess it up more than he already has.

[Urban Ranger]

Nah, GWB won't be able to do anything. The North Koreans supposedly have nuclear weapons, so they are pretty much immune to US aggression.

[Arrian]

China is NK's ally. They will back them - to a point - if for no other reason than to stick it to the US.

The US isn't gonna attack NK, not only because of the nukes they supposedly have, but because even sans-nukes, an invasion would be bloody as hell (civilian casualties would probably be godawful, particularly if the NKs opened up on Seoul).

I just hope we don't bend over (again) and give them more free ****. Let them fire missles into the ocean. Responding to that by giving them things just reinforces their belief that the more weapons they can threaten to use, the more free **** they can get from us (US, Japan, SK).

-Arrian

[My Wife Hates CIV]

China can't even take an island 80 miles off its coast. when the US decides to do an 'iraq' to NK, China will do what china can... sit back and watch.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

'The US isn't gonna attack NK, not only because of the nukes they supposedly have, but because even sans-nukes, an invasion would be bloody as hell (civilian casualties would probably be godawful, particularly if the NKs opened up on Seoul).'

same fluff i heard 4 weeks ago... hmmm...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV
China can't even take an island 80 miles off its coast. when the US decides to do an 'iraq' to NK, China will do what china can... sit back and watch.

You are confused.

"Unable" and "unwilling" are distinctly different.

[Drake Tungsten]

This sounds like bull****; China doesn't want a nuclear North Korea anymore than the other powers in the region. Why would they want to give the Japanese an excuse to get nukes?

BTW, China is unable to take Taiwan...

[Arrian]

'The US isn't gonna attack NK, not only because of the nukes they supposedly have, but because even sans-nukes, an invasion would be bloody as hell (civilian casualties would probably be godawful, particularly if the NKs opened up on Seoul).'

same fluff i heard 4 weeks ago... hmmm...

I have no doubt that US conventional forces could defeat NKs, handily, but I doubt it could be done before NKs artillery pounded the everliving crapola out of Seoul. That isn't acceptable.

-Arrian

[yavoon]

its also likely that the US would employ MAD in the region and arm japan w/ nukes. which would scare the bajeezus out of china/n. korea.

so I dont see the upside for china.

[Arrian]

I would agree there. Which is why China will back NK only to a point. If push really does come to shove (Japan really gets serious about getting nukes... which is by no means a given), I think China would apply some pressure to NK. Nobody over there really wants a nuclear Japan.

-Arrian