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  • #31
    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
    Guys, it's not expelling someone who has a different opinion. It's expelling someone who preaches absolute hatred of his neighbors and the overthrow of the local democratically elected government.


    What the Hell is free speech for then?! You have the RIGHT to preach absolute hatred of your neighbors and campaign for the overthrow of the government. That's what free speech is about, man!
    sweetass, let's all go join our local KKK
    "Mal nommer les choses, c'est accroître le malheur du monde" - Camus (thanks Davout)

    "I thought you must be dead ..." he said simply. "So did I for a while," said Ford, "and then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. A kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic."

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    • #32
      I'm sure the fine line between Freedom of Speech and national security has been discussed here before. The Man is promoting racial hatred and inciting not just voilence, but mass murder. This individual should not be allowed to stay here, or any other Western country against which he preaches hatred.
      Up The Millers

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      • #33
        He does not have the right to incite violence and he certainly does not have the right to his aquired citizenship when he preaches the overthrow of the country that gave him it


        I guess we think of free speech as different in the US. He is only inciting general violence and not specific violence, so I have no problem with it. Abortion protestors who say we should kill all abortion doctors aren't thrown in jail in the US for inciting violence when a doctor is actually killed. Nor should they be.

        let's all go join our local KKK


        As you well know the KKK has free speech rights and are allowed to march and congregate.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • #34
          Wow. A muslim, a British citizen of foreign birth and disabled. That certainly allows some of the more craven posters here to get their prejudices aired out in the open.

          Pity he isn't gay too, you'd have a full house.

          For the record- he allegedly lost his forearms when fighting against the Soviets and the Soviet backed regime in Afghanistan. Presumably, he was one of the good guys then.

          Free speech means exactly that- or it means nothing at all.

          I should point out that I despise and loathe his public pronouncements, detest his abuse of the freedom of speech, and consider his use of Great Britain as a refuge for his criticism of regimes he doesn't agree with, contemptible.
          Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

          ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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          • #35
            Yep, this is entirely about free speech, folks. Freedom means the freedom to say things we disagree with.

            It's amusing that a person from the BNP can reach a position of legal authority in the UK, while this guy has his citizenship revoked and is deported.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

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            • #36
              No one is saying he hasn't got a right to free speach. He has not been prosecuted unde any law for his speaches.

              I do really get fed up with americans deciding they are the sole arbiters of what constitutes free speach.

              What may happen though is that he may lose his aquired citizenship due to conduct that is clearly predjudicial to the country. This includes his pronouncements but it will also include his links with terrorist organisations. He will be allowes to appeal any decision to remove his citizenship. At that point he can then be deported. However there wil be an awful lot of appeals and I doubt it would happen.
              Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
              Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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              • #37
                I should point out that I despise and loathe his public pronouncements, detest his abuse of the freedom of speech, and consider his use of Great Britain as a refuge for his criticism of regimes he doesn't agree with, contemptible.
                Then why bother saying what preceded this comment? Seems like you're criticising people for saying things you agree with...

                As for free speech, would Abu Hamza be allowed to cross the Atlantic and start burning the star-spangled banner?
                Visit the Vote UK Discussion Forum!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by *End Is Forever*


                  Then why bother saying what preceded this comment? Seems like you're criticising people for saying things you agree with...

                  As for free speech, would Abu Hamza be allowed to cross the Atlantic and start burning the star-spangled banner?
                  Yes he would, those Canadians allow anything!
                  He's got the Midas touch.
                  But he touched it too much!
                  Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

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                  • #39
                    The cubans would be up for that too
                    Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                    Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by *End Is Forever*


                      Then why bother saying what preceded this comment? Seems like you're criticising people for saying things you agree with...
                      And at what point did I say he should therefore be stripped of his citizenship? Unlike some people (who seem to think its o.k. to incite racial hatred and violence if you're white and in the B.N.P.) I might loathe Mr. Hamza and his political beliefs but until he starts actively conspiring to overthrow the state or using terrorism I still support his right to say what he says however much I might disagree with it.

                      And what the hell is 'conduct prejudicial to the country'?

                      Whatever the government of the day decides it is?

                      I can't believe it's a Labour government in power- it might as well be Thatcher again. I criticise the U.S. for many things in its foreign policy, but as far as freedom of speech goes, it has many more safeguards than the U.K. does.
                      Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                      ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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                      • #41
                        As for free speech, would Abu Hamza be allowed to cross the Atlantic and start burning the star-spangled banner?


                        Yes. As you are probably aware, flag burning is a Constitutionally protected free speech right.
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                          As for free speech, would Abu Hamza be allowed to cross the Atlantic and start burning the star-spangled banner?


                          Yes. As you are probably aware, flag burning is a Constitutionally protected free speech right.
                          Even though he'd likely be assaulted and beaten.
                          Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                          Do It Ourselves

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                          • #43
                            Then he could sue .
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                            • #44
                              Molly, at least those who 'abuse' Freedom of Speech in our country dont mysteriously go 'missing'. Over there they may be safeguards to protect Freedom of Speech, but there safeguards against it too (hint - The CIA).

                              Freedom of Speech is great, but you have to think about whether the consequences outwieght this individual right. Had Bin laden said in a public announcement to his 'people' that 'America is evil, and the Twin towers, A symbol of America should perish' on 10/09/2001 (or 09/10/2001 in yank terms?!) I dont think many would find the comment an acceptable use of Free speech.

                              There needs to be clauses in the Freedom of Speech for people like Hamza, and that's what's we're thankfully trying to do. Also, If Hamza was to litigate for assault by an American Patriot, I'm sure the Jury would be very sympathetic with him.
                              Up The Millers

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                              • #45
                                There needs to be clauses in the Freedom of Speech for people like Hamza, and that's what's we're thankfully trying to do.


                                I totally 100% disagree. There need be no 'clauses' in Freedom of Speech for anyone. You may be able to convince me to not extend Freedom of Speech to direct solicitation of a crime and direct causation of harm (and direct means 'direct'), but you won't get me much further than that.

                                Also, If Hamza was to litigate for assault by an American Patriot, I'm sure the Jury would be very sympathetic with him.


                                If they weren't, the judges on appeal most definetly would make sure he recieve justice.
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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