Islam as religion of peace

[Sirotnikov]

Azazel - pojalusta obyesni esli ya so svoim ogranichenim ruskim yazikom chegoto ne ponyal.

[Pekka]

Well.. I think Islam is as much about peace as Christianity for example. It depends very much how you practice it. All fundies suck butts, no matter what religion, and unfortunately they are everywhere and give perfectly good religions a bad name.

I do not believe in God who is about killing and destroying those who don't believe in him, or worships something else. I believe in God who loves everyone equally, no matter what religion, and who forgives our mistakes. People have different opinions, and other views are just as good as mine, or as bad as mine.

First of all, I don't get it, that why some religious types needs to judge others? Why is it their concern? THey should be glad 'well at least I'm a better person' or something. Also, if they want to help the other one to understand, they should be nice about it and not condenming.
Islam is huge, growing fast and is about to be the biggest religion (or is it already?), and all these hardliners are very dangerous to us westerners. If we can find out, that they want to spread Islam with force, and making us infidels pay, I say kill all of them (the fundies that is). Take no prisoners. Just pile'em up and torch the thing.

It's funny, it seems like Islam is in control in poor countries. So I don't know what it is in Islam and its ability to make poorer people into it. Every religion is dangerous, and every religion is about peace, depends how you look at it.

[Jac de Molay]

Religion, by its very nature, is oppressive and prone to violence. There's been very few times in history where various religions have coexisted peacefully on a large scale. Islam is no better or different

[Az]

Siro: On uj tochno luchshe obyasnit. Ya ne dumayu shto on eto imel v'vidu v'pryamom smisle.

[Bosh]

Islam is huge, growing fast and is about to be the biggest religion (or is it already?)

Catholicism tops a billion while Islam is just under a billion IIRC. And at the rate its going Pentecostalism will beat both of them in a few decades.

[yavoon]

yes but pentecostalism wont cuz projecting its rate over that large a period is impractical

[Az]

Pentecostalism????

[Ramo]

What people don't seem to realize is that the Arab world isn't the Islamic world. It's true that Islamism thrives in places like Saudi Arabia or Algeria. But most of the Islamic world is fairly secular, believe it or not. The countries with the four largest Islamic populations, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India (albeit Islam is a minority relgion in India) have all had women heads of state. Turkey, Egypt, Iraq are all large, secular, mostly Moslem states. The Iranian population is leaning towards secularlism even if its gov't opposes them. Most Moslems do not believe that it's ok to kill people because they're heathens.

[Shi Huangdi]

From the Koran:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29). "

[Az]

Ramo: I know that, but the other people are not showing that there is another voice.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Aro

Changing two words:

"Sure USA wants peace. And there will be peace when the whole world will be ruled by USA - see?"

Aro:
a)I'm not American
b)I'm against this war for it produces no good
c)I'm atheist
c)I'm somewhere between Green Party and Communist

Now how 'bout that?
Why I am against the way how the US acts? It all comes down to the fact that the world is divided in good and bad and nothing in between. That's the same kind of thinking that can be found in most religions, and very much in Islam.

Yet taking a look into the traditions of islamic law throughout history
there's little that qualifies to refer to Islam as a religion of peace. But it's not only the tradition - for tradition may change and christianity has had not a great record either. It's also the Koran. Again, some might say, the bible in some parts is bloodier than the Koran. Partially true, very partially though. This goes for maybe for those Christians who think the OT is still fully valid today and who rely much on it, yet you won't find Jesus Christ talking like that...
One of the major rules in all Islam is following the example of the prophet - even more than for Christians living according to Jesus' example. Now while Jesus was walking on lakes and partitioned bread, Muhammad was waging wars, telling his warriors to hunt and enslave all polytheists and last but not least annihilating a whole Jewish tribe (of course because they were treacherous...)

In all muslim countries defecting from Islam is either a crime or at least you're not safe anymore - why? Because Islam has been hijacked? No, Muhammad tells in several passages of the Quran that this is the worst crime of all and there's no mercy for those guys...
Ask ANY muslim, even the most peaceloving, what he thinks about defectors of the faith from a religious standpoint.

Of course we must acknowledge that there's peacful movements within Islam, like the Sufis but that doesn't mean that intolerant "versions" of Islam "hijack" the faith - it's all therer in the religious writings.

[monkspider]

Islam is one of the less-enlightened religions admittedly, but if it is the one that brings you closest to God, then there is nothing wrong with it.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Master Zen
As for tolerance, jews and christians were allowed to live in the Ottoman Empire without fear of discrimination. AFAIK they were not allowd to publically practice it or attempt to convert others but other than that they were not persecuted.
At the same time people were being burned at the stake just a few hundrends of miles west...

"Without fear of discrimination" could work sometimesin those areas where mot yet muslims had settled.
But generally in the Ottoman empire this includes:
-Being forbidden to build a new church
-Forbidden to ride on horses
-Discrimination before court; the word of a Christian or Jew was worthless against a muslim, like always in history of islam; although the Ottoman bureaucracy tended sometimes to deal with care this was actually AGAINST islamic law. Want to get rid of your Christian neighbor: Accuse him of "disturbing your prayer" or "trying to make you defect"...
-Discrimination in clothing; stigmatizing yellow and blue signs, bells or turbans; wearing precious cloth was under capital punishment in 16th/17th century

[Bosh]

Pentecostalism????

Yup, its huge and getting bigger, especially in Africa, Latin America and Korea.

Pentecostalism has become the fastest growing segment of Christianity. "It is growing at a rate of 13 million a year, or 35,000 a day. With nearly a half billion adherents, it is, after Roman Catholicism, the largest Christian tradition" (Christian History, "The Rise of Pentecostalism," issue no. 58, vol. XVII no. 2, p.3). In addition, the largest church in the world (the Yoi Do Full Gospel Church) is a Pentecostal church in Korea, pastored by David Yonggi Cho, with a weekly worship attendance of 240,000. Two Pentecostal Churches in Buenos Aires attract together 150,000 each week (ibid.).

They're the ones who're into speaking in tongues.

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"

Pagans are people whose religion isn't based on the relevations of a prophet of god, which according to Islamic theology is pretty few people. And the context of the statement is the specific pagan tribes that Muhammad was fighting.

In all muslim countries defecting from Islam is either a crime or at least you're not safe anymore - why?

That's the case just about nowhere except Saudi Arabia.

[Sirotnikov]

Siro: On uj tochno luchshe obyasnit. Ya ne dumayu shto on eto imel v'vidu v'pryamom smisle.

chestno ya toje podozreval shto eto ne imelos v'pryamuyu. no bilo zabavno tak ya yemo tak i otvetil.

ya tebe skazhu - ya ruski sleng i mat pochti ne znayu. bolshinstvo ponimayu esli slishu - no vot sam tak razgovarivat ne umeyu.

ne povorachivaietsa yazik skazat chegoto po ne literaturnomu yaziku.

moy ruski iz razgovora v semye i iz knig. semya visoko obrzovanaya. knigi seryoznie. poetomu matyukat ne umeyu kak sleduyet.