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Oh, yeah, well whatever. Point is, America has successfully roped in at least one other nation of significance, and I'm tired of people claiming it's unilateral.
Besides, isn't the United States Government a governing body?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking it a little too far
Originally posted by Tingkai
The decision to attack was not a group decision. Therefore it was a unilateral decision.
By your definition every decision is unilateral unless it spontaneously occurs to everybody involved at once, without anyone mentioning it to anyone else.
Going off and asking people if they're on board is hardly distinguishable from discussing it. We discussed it with the British and they were game. We discussed it with the French and they weren't.
If you're bent out of shape because American foreign policy decisions aren't made in Paris, that's your problem. Don't call it unilateral though.
Originally posted by Tingkai
Ya but most of the European players are said to be polite during interviews.
What can I say, they good role models.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking it a little too far
Originally posted by Tingkai
These kids were probably in a typical greyhound-type bus. Odds are the protesters only saw the USA painted on the bus and reacted to it. They probably never noticed who was in the bus.
Then again, if the protesters knew it was just a bunch of kids then, ya, the protesters were jerks.
But I think it is more likely that the protesters didn't see the kids.
Hmmm. A lot of people on Poly, and elsewhere, go out of their way to say they are not Anti-American, but are opposed to the American government.
So, what does making lewd gestures a bus have to do with how old the passangers of the bus were? You think they should not have realised that there were most likely a lot of Americans on it? Children included?You seem to think it is OK to harass people, joe or johnny citizen, for the actions of their government. What does that say about you?
BTW, was the ref not aware he was officiating over a pee-wee hockey game?
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Originally posted by Felch X
Oh, yeah, well whatever. Point is, America has successfully roped in at least one other nation of significance, and I'm tired of people claiming it's unilateral.
Besides, isn't the United States Government a governing body?
Are you claiming that the US governemnt has governing authority over Iraq?
The UN specifically has the solution of international disputes as its mandate. I'm not sure what the mandate of the Arab league is (suspect its more limited wrt members), but at least it has some claim. The US has no claim to governing authority over Iraq. Therefore any attack by the US without the permission of a suitable authority (Iraq's government, UN, etc.) is unilateral. It may or may not be justified by self-defense, humanitarian concerns etc., but it is unilateral, regardless.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking it a little too far
Originally posted by notyoueither
BTW, was the ref not aware he was officiating over a pee-wee hockey game?
As I recall, our refs were usually 15-18 years old.
And that comment seems a bit fishy (I buy the rest, but most refs that I had experience with were trying to get through games with as little trouble as possible, not looking to incite it)
Yes, Frogger. But things are a bit heated at the moment, and some of the morons are dropping their cover.
After all, we have a person here in this thread, who is usually fairly liberal, who thinks that harassing people based on nationality is somehow justified, in this case.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking it a little too far
Originally posted by notyoueither
You seem to think it is OK to harass people, joe or johnny citizen, for the actions of their government. What does that say about you?
BTW, was the ref not aware he was officiating over a pee-wee hockey game?
The protesters were not harassing the kids. The protesters were exercising their freedom of speech. Or is it now against the law to give someone the finger? Like I said before, the hockey players were not attacked. The bus was not attacked. There was no violence. So no problem.
And yes, in a democratic society we are ultimately responsible for the actions of our government. We can offer support, or protest against it.
Yes, the ref was out of line, if he did make those comments, but we don't know what was said.
It's possible NYE...and if true should get the guy barred from reffing. But it could also be the exaggeration by the kids of what was more likely (a crowd which was likely already gathered saw a Greyhound with "USA" emblazoned on it and decided to start chanting away at it)
I hope that if they'd known there were loads of kids on the bus they'd have the sense to shut the **** up.
Actually, I would hope that fewer people would be genuinely Anti-American. However, I feel that is a forlorn hope, since I am not really going to be able to do anything about it.
I don't think that the 'Amercians are bastards' was a misstatement as an MP pleaded it was. Rather, I think it is a deeper form of bigotry. We all pretend we are so enlightnened, that we are advanced. To be honest, I see a lot of people still more than willing to engage in tribalism and intolerance of differing ideologies.
This case of the bus is just an obvious example. One that many Americans are not likely to forget.
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Tingkai, I think you fail to realize that while being a d*ck is not illegal, these actions were bigoted and should be avoided. It's a terrible shame that people behave like this, of any age. Just as the KKK is disgusting and yet legal, such blatant displays of bigotry and hatred are disgusting, regardless of whether they are exercising freedom of speech or not.
Laws are not the ultimate arbiter of morality, as there are certainly many legal acts that are deeply immoral and unacceptable in civilized society. This is one of them.
Lime roots and treachery!
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Originally posted by notyoueither
Actually, I would hope that fewer people would be genuinely Anti-American. However, I feel that is a forlorn hope, since I am not really going to be able to do anything about it.
I don't think that the 'Amercians are bastards' was a misstatement as an MP pleaded it was. Rather, I think it is a deeper form of bigotry. We all pretend we are so enlightnened, that we are advanced. To be honest, I see a lot of people still more than willing to engage in tribalism and intolerance of differing ideologies.
This case of the bus is just an obvious example. One that many Americans are not likely to forget.
I don't particularly care that much, NYE.
Tire slashings in florida. Merchants refusing to ship to Canadian customers (even if they provide an American address). "Freedom Fries". Virulent anti-Gallicism on the front page of half the dailies in the States and on the tongues of most American commentators (beyond normal political criticism).
There are *******s everywhere. The point is that we've been lucky enough generally to have our society reject the hateful sentiments. Our newspapers aren't running editorials that sound suspiciously close to racism. When our pols **** up they have to resign or apologise. The G&M reports the previous story (IIRC, I heard it from there first) and condemns it.
Originally posted by Frogger
Tire slashings in florida. Merchants refusing to ship to Canadian customers (even if they provide an American address). "Freedom Fries". Virulent anti-Gallicism on the front page of half the dailies in the States and on the tongues of most American commentators (beyond normal political criticism).
With the possible exception of the tire slashings, none of those even approach the scale of vicious hatred exhibited in such occurences as that which this thread discusses. I have yet to see such an act in America, but they seem to be more and more common in France and Canada.
I am impressed at our tolerance, and dismayed at your apparent lack thereof.
Lime roots and treachery!
"Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten
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