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  • C# and its CLI stamped as ISO standard, Java left in dust



    Microsoft to score new C# standard

    By Martin LaMonica
    Staff Writer, CNET News.com
    April 2, 2003, 9:14 AM PT

    Microsoft is continuing its efforts to standardize its C# programming language, the software giant's competitor to Java and a foundation for its next-generation Internet services.
    Microsoft on Tuesday said that the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) in April will certify Microsoft's programming language C# (pronounced C sharp) and the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI), which is underlying software "plumbing" that can run applications written in different programming languages.

    The ISO standardization will ease Microsoft's entry into large corporations or governments that prefer certification of commercial products from international standards bodies, Microsoft executives said.

    C# is a programming language that Microsoft created as an alternative to Java, which was developed by rival Sun Microsystems. C# and CLI are fundamental components to Microsoft's Visual Studio. Net development tool and the company's strategy for selling development tools for building Web services applications.

    Sun, by contrast, has not taken the path of submitting the Java language and the associated software to an international standards body. Instead, Sun has established the Java Community Process, a structure by which Java software companies can develop and certify the Java 2 Enterprise Edition specification.

    While Microsoft said that its efforts demonstrate the company's willingness to work with standards bodies, Sun officials have noted that C# and CLI only represent a subset of Microsoft's overall application development software.

    The ISO certification is a result of Microsoft's ongoing standardization work with the European Computer Manufacturers Association (ECMA), a Geneva-based standards organization that publishes information technology standards. Nearly three years ago, Microsoft submitted C# and the CLI to the ECMA in an attempt to appeal to companies and government agencies that prefer to buy standardized software.

    ECMA published C# and CLI as standards in December 2001. But by gaining ISO standardization, Microsoft gains a broader reach and potential appeal with companies concerned with standardization.

    "There are a number of governmental organization that recognize ISO as a standards body but (don't recognize) ECMA," said Tony Goodhew, product manager with Microsoft's .Net Framework group. "This means that governmental organization can look at the ECMA standards and say, 'Yes, it's a true standard.'"

    For example, Australia has a rule that allows any specification that is an ISO standard to be automatically deemed an Australian standard, Goodhew explained.

    Founded in the 1947, ISO is a standards organization that addresses a huge array of products and issues, ranging from common formats for credit cards to freight containers and high-quality management techniques.

    On top of an ISO seal of approval, companies can also look at the published specifications of C# and the CLI to better understand the underlying products once they purchase them, Goodhew said.

    The academic community benefits perhaps more from the published specifications to do computer science research than do companies, he added.
    Another sign of impending death for Java?

    God bless Sun and their glorious ineptitude.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    Java is clumsy at times... but I'm yet to use C#, and yet to see my Linux packages being written in that, so go Java!
    Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
    Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
    I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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    • #3
      That's because the VM for C# in *nix isn't nearly as mature as the Windows version.

      Not to mention that most Unix developers are so anti-Microsoft that they would probably refuse to use a Microsoft technology even if it was significantly better and more open than Sun's technology.

      Not that it matters, of course, Unix is becoming increasing irrelevant on the desktop and workstations.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • #4
        There is VM for C# in Linux? I didn't even know that...

        And unless someone shows me a good reason to use C# rather than Java on my Linux box.... gee!
        Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
        Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
        I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Solver
          There is VM for C# in Linux? I didn't even know that...
          A couple, in fact.

          MS made a CLI for *nix called "Rotor". It's even open shared-source..

          Ximian is making their own implementation, called Mono.

          And unless someone shows me a good reason to use C# rather than Java on my Linux box.... gee!
          Significantly faster, more flexible, truly OO (Java still uses primitives for most data types)
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment


          • #6
            If it's different than it's bad and should be eliminated
            Monkey!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, I wouldn't know... never tried C#, again, but I'm tempted... been so for a year .
                Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's a short summary of C# vs Java: http://www.networkmagazineindia.com/.../workshop1.htm
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The ISO standardization will ease Microsoft's entry into large corporations or governments that prefer certification of commercial products from international standards bodies, Microsoft executives said.
                    Who are these mythical corporations/governments? The US Gov't has no problem with Java. Could it be that Msoft is once again solving a problem that doesn't exist?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gunkulator
                      Who are these mythical corporations/governments? The US Gov't has no problem with Java. Could it be that Msoft is once again solving a problem that doesn't exist?
                      Did you read the article? It clearly gave an example with Australia.

                      ISO standard is a very good thing when everyone always *****es at you for being proprietary.

                      Anyone who wants to now has a standard, set in stone, so they can create their own C# compilers and C# CLIs...

                      It's a very good thing, and it certainly is a problem that existed.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Asher

                        Did you read the article? It clearly gave an example with Australia.
                        Did you read it? It only said that ISO Standard = Austrailian Standard. Big whoop. Nothing in there about preferences.

                        Even preferences are mostly a joke. It wasn't all that long ago that the major software client in the US Govt, DOD, "prefered" Ada.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gunkulator
                          Did you read it? It only said that ISO Standard = Austrailian Standard. Big whoop. Nothing in there about preferences.
                          Hello? What do you think that means?

                          Governments have technology reviews before they can accept something as a standard. C# and its CLI were not a standard in a country like Australia, but thanks to their law where ISO standard = Australian standard, it now is.

                          Even preferences are mostly a joke. It wasn't all that long ago that the major software client in the US Govt, DOD, "prefered" Ada.
                          What's the relevence of this? Of course they'd prefer Ada, it's THEIR language that THEY developed.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Asher

                            Hello? What do you think that means?

                            Governments have technology reviews before they can accept something as a standard. C# and its CLI were not a standard in a country like Australia, but thanks to their law where ISO standard = Australian standard, it now is.
                            In other news today, Budweiser has been declared the Official Beer of the NFL. The beer drinking world is rocked by the consequences.


                            What's the relevence of this?
                            It's just beyond your grasp apparently. Read on.

                            Of course they'd prefer Ada, it's THEIR language that THEY developed.
                            Yes yes. But WHY did they develop it? To improve reliability, reduce costs, increase maintainability, etc. As shocked bureaucrats quickly discovered, gov't standardization in the area of languages solved none of these problems.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              every thing the government touches turn to crap, and we all know it. I have to deal with them everyday and have to concur to at least the standards they set. In most cases I have the ability to go above and beyond their standards, creating a better life for me.

                              NOTE: ISO standards are becoming increasingly accepted across the all boards that govern, not just the US. Even the MCA follows them.
                              Monkey!!!

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