Rumsfeld Warns Syria

[Ted Striker]

I think those honors belonged to Schroeder and Chirac before Rumsfeld ever said anything.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Ned


Like Germany and Japan?

What are you talking about? What democracies have we set up?

no, im talking about countries that arent predisposed to democracy or republics...

[Vandal-1]

I will pitch in my two cents here by argueing that a certain amount of assistance is likely coming from all across the Arab world.The Syrian cadres were obviouse about thier diliveries and rebutted that the US/UK invasion was unjustified and illegal in the eyes of the UN which it is a member. Iraq has the sympathy of it's brothers so to speak and while they may believe that we are there to liberate the Oil ! they doubt that US/UK interest have anything in common with their interest which first resides in the autonomy to be a soveriegn entity not a American puppet state,or one of many that will exist in the region.I see the evolution of a broader problem taking form daily and cite events in Afgan w/ Pak assistance,Clearly...a protracted war is going into political phase and if succesful then recruited cadres have a growing rear area to operate in.The milllitary phase of this will last for some time after the offensive is complete and we will have to change our tactics in order to prevail in that struggle.

[Urban Ranger]

Azazel,

IIRC, the Chinese turned to Israel after they couldn't get the AWAC planes from the US. Eventually they got Russian ones.

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by MRT144


no, im talking about countries that arent predisposed to democracy or republics...

So by your definition, any country that the US left that stayed a republic doesn't count because they were somehow "predisposed" to be one. I see.

Perhaps you were refering to Germany's and Japan's long history with democracy.

[GePap]

Germany and Japan had both had actual working important democratically eelcted governments before the ones that took them to war came into power. Germans knew how to vote and how to abide by the results when the US took over.

Iraq, on the other hand, has never, in its entire history, had a single cohesive democratic government.

[Az]

Azazel,

IIRC, the Chinese turned to Israel after they couldn't get the AWAC planes from the US. Eventually they got Russian ones

The Chinese turned to the US?

I was talking about the Indians.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap
Germany and Japan had both had actual working important democratically eelcted governments before the ones that took them to war came into power. Germans knew how to vote and how to abide by the results when the US took over.

Iraq, on the other hand, has never, in its entire history, had a single cohesive democratic government.

GePap, true. But the very same thing could be said of Russia. But it made a seemingly successful transition to democracy.

I hardly believe that people of Iraq are so "undereducated," and "tribal" as to be incapable of democracy. This is almost like saying that only certain people on earth are entitled to human rights. This is ridiculous.

The real problem I see in Iraq and, indeed, throughout the world of Islam is the rising influence of the clerics who are demanding that they have a larger role in the government. This trend largely began after the fall the Shah of Iran and the rise of Khomeini.

I believe that in the postwar Iraq that we need to ban two parties from political power in order to give democracy chance: the first is the Ba'atist party. The second will be Islamic fundamentalist parties that call for giving the clerics real political power, ala Iran.

The problem I see in any UN control of Iraq is that they just may permit these parties to operate.

[Az]

But it made a seemingly successful transition to democracy.

depends on how do you define success.

[Dauphin]

There was a joke in the 90s "What’s free-market Russia’s greatest achievement? It did in a decade what the Soviets couldn’t do in 70 years--it made communism look good".

[Az]

[The Viceroy]

I think it was a mistake to have used megaphone diplomacy on this, It just means that now we have both the Iranians and Syrians on Al Jazeera spouting more anti-american rubish, which could have been avoided.

Iran is not in a position to invade Iraq, to do so would be to invite retaliation, and all its nuclear research would be destroyed (even if they won Iraq) .. better to let the Americans have their bone, and for Iran to get its bomb (in their eyes).

Syria shouts a lot, and makes a noise, but the reality of it is it would not be able to take Iraq, and I can assure you, Turkey would not sit there, and let them take the oil fields in Kurdistan .. no chance .. they prefer the Iraqi authorities to control it.

So in my mind, this is all bluff, and it should have been done via the backdoor ..

[Ned]

Originally posted by The Viceroy
I think it was a mistake to have used megaphone diplomacy on this, It just means that now we have both the Iranians and Syrians on Al Jazeera spouting more anti-american rubish, which could have been avoided.

Iran is not in a position to invade Iraq, to do so would be to invite retaliation, and all its nuclear research would be destroyed (even if they won Iraq) .. better to let the Americans have their bone, and for Iran to get its bomb (in their eyes).

Syria shouts a lot, and makes a noise, but the reality of it is it would not be able to take Iraq, and I can assure you, Turkey would not sit there, and let them take the oil fields in Kurdistan .. no chance .. they prefer the Iraqi authorities to control it.

So in my mind, this is all bluff, and it should have been done via the backdoor ..

Sorry, Syria started this by shipping night vision goggles to the Saddam regime. Had they stayed out of the conflict, quiet diplomacy on terrorism would have been the order of the day. But, instead, they deliberately chose the path of confrontation. This can only escallate unless Syria backs off.

[GePap]

Bah...how would the US "escalate?" honestly? Attack Syria at this point? That would end this coolition of the willing right quick. How much of our power isbased in arab regimes? Do you think they would see the attack of another arab state ina good light?

As for Iran..why can;t Iranioan backed anti-Saddam forces fight to get rid of him? we are there to libeate Iraq, yet we don;t want the Iraqis to do anyting by themselves, unless the US or Uk already are at the gates.. some message of coolition support for Iraqi political change..don;t do ahything on your own unless we think it beneficial for our forces at this moment. Some Liberation force.

[Ned]

Powell already escallated last night - warning Syria to stop supporting terrorism or else. Syria responded that it has chosen to support the Iraqi people - against whom are committed so many crimes against humanity, presumably by the forces of liberation.

I think the next step is closing the border between Syrian and Iraq.