Rumsfeld Warns Syria

[Az]

its a symbiotic relationship with you gaining more from it than us.

Ok, let's see.
Till around 64', Israel's relationship with the US government was cold, to say the least, while in 56' the US government was openly HOSTILE towards us. ( yes, we were *******s in 56', but it's not like the US opposed us because they are for freedom or something. )

64', a sale of Hawk SAMs to Israel. big friendship? hardly. more of trying to counterbalance the SU, since Nasser was obviously not for sale. main ally of Israel: France.

67', USA puts Israel in a precariously dangerous strategical situation, dragging it's feet for weeks.

73': USA ships ammunition and weaponary to Israel. USA loves Israel, USA is Israel's "*****"?

- countering the NATO sized forces concentrated around Israel, with direct involvement of SU "advisors", and "specialists", aka, SAM operators, and fighter pilots.

76'- USA allows Syria to enter Lebanon, which is double-edged sword for Israel, since Syria ****s the palestinians doggie-style, yet has now a widened front against Israel, and what's even better, via proxy, so it can keep it's hands clean.

78'- the start of negotiations for peace between Egypt and Israel: Nasser was impossible to turn around for the "reasonable way", but Saddat isn't. USA showers both Israel and Egypt with candy, and gets Egypt (!). "Strike another one for the good guys".
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maybe you don't think that the USA doesn't benefit much from that relationship, but your government surely dissagrees.

[Az]

I've yet to see good proof that the attack was an error. The Iraqi attack on the Stark was an error: one missile, one hit. The attack on the Liberty had repeated fly-overs before the attack, and a big-ass US flag flying, not to mention it looks nothing like the ship the Israelis claim they were targetting.

Feel free to take reason No. 2. .

I see no reason for Israel to attack a US ship. Could you please get me one?

[MRT144]

thats the problem! weve been down this road before. i disagree with my government's position that israel is a benefit to our diplomacy with the mideast rather than a liability.

the second problem is that you dont think we do **** for you while in fact the reason that arabs dont overrun you or die trying is because we got your back while you offer us your useless clout in dealing with your enemies.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Azazel
Could you please get me one?

Reason isn't needed to prove a purposeful act. The evidence stands on its own.

[Az]

the second problem is that you dont think we do **** for you while in fact the reason that arabs dont overrun you or die trying is because we got your back while you offer us your useless clout in dealing with your enemies.

don't flatter yourself. we can survive without you. If you were stacked against you, it might've been difficult, but I am sure we can allign ourselves with China, or EU, or Russia. You know, people that hate you.

And of course you do **** for us, nobody says you don't. You do **** for turkey too, like prevent the creation of a Kurdish state. You do **** for people all over the world. And you get lots of other **** back.

[Az]

Reason isn't needed to prove a purposeful act. The evidence stands on its own.

How come they always look for intent in those detective shows?

[MRT144]

i know you can take care of yourself...but not everyone is convinced. i would love for nothing more than an indy israel and an indy america. you really think that as soon as we would withdraw every arab nation wouldnt gun for you?

and we only get bad stuff back like antiamericanism and a bunch of sassy israelis

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Iraq: the US helped Saddam to power and propped him up during the Iran-Iraq War.

That's the biggest BS argument the leftists have been spewing about. Baath party is socialist and soviet supported through and through. Saddam was from beginning on the darling of the Soviets. His entire military was built around Soviet equipment and doctrines. His rule was thouroughly designed in the similar way as Stalin's Sovietunion. Later, his reactor was mainly built under French assistance.

America indeed staged a coup in 1958 to rid the fundementalist monarchy, but the coup leader was murdered 5 years by the Baath party. His bullet-ridden corpse was displayed in Bagdhad in plain view.

Get yourself educated on the matter before spewing ignorant non-sense.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Azazel
How come they always look for intent in those detective shows?

What does that have to do with explaining away the repeated recon flights and the ludicrous excuse that it was mistaken for an Egyptian horse carrier of a completely different profile?

[Az]

Horse carrier?

ok, lets say that Israel attacked the ship on purpose. what was that purpose?

[GePap]

To make sure the US would not be monotering exactly what the Israelis were doing at that very point. The US was trying to have a cease fire worked out along with the Soviets. The Israelis did not seem all that interested early on. By keeping the US eys of themselves, they could take a few moves the uS might disapprove on without Washington knowing about it...

[MRT144]

lord merciless, you touched on another problem. when in doubt america supports the lesser evil rather than KEEPING ITS NOSE OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES ****!

[Az]

. The Israelis did not seem all that interested early on

I thought we've established earlier in that other thread that Israel did NOT want that war.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Baath party is socialist and soviet supported through and through.

Actually, they're nationalists who spout some socialist ideology because that stuff plays well for the massses. While Iraq had quite a good deal of socialized services, such as education and health care, the capitalist economy was always in charge.

Saddam was from beginning on the darling of the Soviets.

Not from the begining. Hussein helped overthrow General Abdul Karim Kassem, who had pulled Iraq out of the Bagdad Pact (America's alliance in the ME), threatened to invade Kuwait when Britain relinquished its control in 1960, and had allowed Communists in the government. While Hussein was in Cairo, after a failed assassination attempt against Kassem, he became aquainted with the CIA, who gave him money. When the Ba'ath overthrew Kassem in 1963, the CIA gave Hussein a list of communists, whom were then murdered by Hussein and his people.

America indeed staged a coup in 1958 to rid the fundementalist monarchy, but the coup leader was murdered 5 years by the Baath party.

Wrong. See above.

Get yourself educated on the matter before spewing ignorant non-sense.

When you point a finger, three more are pointing back at you.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/longroad/

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MRT144
lord merciless, you touched on another problem. when in doubt america supports the lesser evil rather than KEEPING ITS NOSE OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES ****!

That's not true. When confronted by multiple evils, the US chooses the one that best represents America's immeidate interests.