Iraqi tactics - Post your critics here

[Chemical Ollie]

I read somewhere that Iraqi officers have been in close contact with Serbia to learn how they fooled the USAF with fake plywood tanks. The best way to counter a smart bomb is to be where it isn't. Does anyone know if the Iraqis have used fake targets? Not that there is much wood around to produce such fakes, but they could have imported it.

OK, the T-55 and T-72 are about as useful as plywood tanks against Abrams (or whatever you call'em), but they would still be useful against infantry, right?

[Agathon]

Yeah but if you can get behind an Abrams they aren't too hard to immoblise.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Agathon
Yeah but if you can get behind an Abrams they aren't too hard to immoblise.

Is there any official stats on Abrams lost in action in this war? I heard rumours that some American tanks were lost when a temporary bridge was hit by Iraqi artillery, but no confirmed losses.

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Agathon
Why don't we wait until the real fighting starts - in Bagdhad and Tikrit.

Anyway, the US will probably manage to oust the Baath regime, but I'll bet that's about when the real fun will start.

I like the way you try to calm down the speculation, then start speculating in the very next sentence.

Surely you realise that every armchair general has a firm grasp on how the war should be fought, on both sides. In fact, sometimes I wonder why the incompetents planning wars today won't just call us to get a foolproof plan.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre


Is there any official stats on Abrams lost in action in this war? I heard rumours that some American tanks were lost when a temporary bridge was hit by Iraqi artillery, but no confirmed losses.

Five M1's lost so far, one abandoned due to collapse of a bridge under the weight of the Abrams, two others in the south were some sort of accidental loss, two belonging to 3 ID were mobility killed by RPG hits on side, blowing off tracks. The two combat losses were without fatalities.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
I read somewhere that Iraqi officers have been in close contact with Serbia to learn how they fooled the USAF with fake plywood tanks. The best way to counter a smart bomb is to be where it isn't. Does anyone know if the Iraqis have used fake targets? Not that there is much wood around to produce such fakes, but they could have imported it.

OK, the T-55 and T-72 are about as useful as plywood tanks against Abrams (or whatever you call'em), but they would still be useful against infantry, right?

Bradleys outmatch them, so they'd have to hit a softskin vehicle convoy or light infantry to do any real damage. Of course, they still have to live long enough and be able to move to find those kind of soft targets, but oh well.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Yup. These tactics aren't much different from things Special Forces do. A lot of stuff the SAS/SBS (probably the US Special Forces) did is quite unspeakable.

Oh really? Is it unspeakable because you have no idea what it is, you're just trying to pull a "both sides do it, so the poor peace-loving Iraqis aren't being bad," or is it unspeakable because you have specific examples to site that don't come from Saddam's independent news media? It was pretty nasty when we took out that Baby Milk Plant^TM too.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


...so the poor peace-loving Iraqis aren't being bad ...

The Iraqi's aren't exactly peace-loving. Your supply convoys have probably found that out by now...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Oh really? Is it unspeakable because you have no idea what it is, you're just trying to pull a "both sides do it, so the poor peace-loving Iraqis aren't being bad," or is it unspeakable because you have specific examples to site that don't come from Saddam's independent news media?

What's this, a false dilemma? I thought you'd use plenty of examples instead.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What's this, a false dilemma? I thought you'd use plenty of examples instead.

Apparently it's a false dilemma, since I was hoping you'd cite some examples of the SAS/SBS "unspeakable things" done during this war?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre


The Iraqi's aren't exactly peace-loving. Your supply convoys have probably found that out by now...

Since we've got all of a Marine regiment pretty much taking effective control of a city of about half a million, it wouldn't appear that resistance is that widespread among the Iraqi people.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Apparently it's a false dilemma, since I was hoping you'd cite some examples of the SAS/SBS "unspeakable things" done during this war?

But then they wouldn't be unspeakable.

[Caspian]

I would like to talk about the battle for hearts and minds that is being waged through the media. The immediate Iraqi objective is to convince their own people that Saddam is there for the long haul, to embolden loyal supporters and to convince dissedents that resistance will be put down. These irregular troops are as much media tools as they are militiary assetts. The second, longer term objective is to convince citizens of the coalition that the war is going badly. The aim here is to facilitate the withdrawal of US troops as was done in Vietnam and Somalia. Obviously, the coalition effort is aimed at the exact opposite goal.

It strikes me that Saddams regime has the upperhand in this sphere of the conflict. The free press can be analytical and critical. (this is a good thing though ) The stories are often presented in a way that reflects more on the personal opinion of different news editors than their governments view. This is how they make their money. It is popular to be radical and to take pops at authority figures (I know I loved it when I got one over my teachers when I was at school)

However, the Iraqis have been subjected to state run media for the last 30 years. They are told how to think. It presents a sugar coated view of Saddams regime while containing menacing undertones of the fate of dissidents. Not usually blatantly obvious, but full of nasty little suggestions. Iraqi media no doubt plays a multitude of foreign news clips that show only anti war demonstrations and arab adulation of saddam.

So you see, the Iraqi propaganda machine has the power to reach its own people and the people of the US/UK etc. Western media on the other hand has very little effect on the Iraqis and huge power over the people of its own area.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Five M1's lost so far, one abandoned due to collapse of a bridge under the weight of the Abrams, two others in the south were some sort of accidental loss, two belonging to 3 ID were mobility killed by RPG hits on side, blowing off tracks. The two combat losses were without fatalities.

I saw pictures of three that had actually been immoblised. By RPG hits to the rear of the track mechanism. IIRC these were Iraqi pics. Apparently this is about the Abrams only weakness.

I'm guessing a few more have gone and that the "accidental" losses were no such thing. Typical spin. Then again - that's a pretty good kill/loss rate if the numbers of Iraqi casualties are to be believed.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Accidental losses aren't that uncommon - the Abrams is too heavy to be towed out of real soft ground if it gets bogged, and if you throw a track in soft ground, it can be unrecoverable on ground where it could otherwise be recovered if the tracks were on.

The ability to tow a 69 ton vehicle out of sticky ground isn't trivial, and nobody is going to let the fate of one stuck tank dictate the pace of operations, so sometimes, you just say "**** it, let's blow the thing and move on"