what's "wrong" with this?

[MarkG]

from newsmax

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/3/27/114356.shtml

Refusal to fight American and British soldiers means a bullet in the back of the head – the Iraqi version of friendly fire.

isnt this what has happened, is happening and will be happening in all wars and all armies?

[Drake Tungsten]

You're not serious, are you?

[MarkG]

you're saying that this has not happened in the past and it's something totally new?

[Urban Ranger]

I think in the US, this is now called "treason."

[Nevs23]

Re: what's "wrong" with this?

Originally posted by MarkG
from newsmax

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/3/27/114356.shtml

Seems like propaganda.

"In War the first victim is the truth."
Sir Winston Churchill

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I think in the US, this is now called "treason."

do they kill people for it?

[Dauphin]

I heard that some American soldiers were executed for desertion in the second world war after the Battle of the Bulge. French and British executed many men in WW1 for desertion.

I doubt that it would be employed in our armies today.

[Spiffor]

It is one of the many horrors of war. Of course it is wrong, but it is hardly surprising.

[lightblue]

The Russians killed a division worths of their own people in Stalingrad, it did get them victory in the end. With Saddam an admirer of Stalin, maybe he's picking up pointers...

[Alex]

Iraqi soldier: "I don't want to fight against them!"
Iraqi Officer: "What? You traitor!" BANG!

---

American soldier: "This war is wrong and I don't want to fight it anymore!"
American Officer: "Well, you're surely entitled to your own opinion... You can go back home now. I wish you good luck and success in your future career."

[DaShi]

.000001/10

[DarthVeda]

No... that's called insubordination. You get reprimanded first and then you get Court Martialed. Usually a few years in the brig (prison), under extraordinary cases it could warrant execution.

[Urban Ranger]

Okay. Treason is when you actually shoot your CO instead of just ignoring him. I get the difference now.

[MichaeltheGreat]

What's wrong with it is that it's murder, and it's widespread in the Iraqi conscript forces.

In the last gulf war, EPW interviews established that Iraqi special security service, military intelligence and Special Republican Guard units summarily executed many dozens, if not several hundred, Iraqi soldiers for trying to surrender. During the Iran-Iraq war, the number is believed to be in the low thousands.

In the US, only one soldier has been executed for desertion and cowardice since the War of Yankee Aggression: Pvt. (E1) Eddie Slovik, in WW2. That was after numerous appeals, and everyone expected that the death sentence was "to send a message" and that it would be modified on appeal. There have been a few (very few) rumored incidents of chicken**** officers being shot in the field (which is technically mutiny and murder, no matter the reason) for refusing to obey orders to advance to help other troops. I've never heard any real substantiation of this, but even something occasional and unsubstantiated is nothing close to the common, entirely "legal" enforcement methods used in Iraq.

Right now, if a US soldier refuses to deploy to the ME (it's happened), they'll get a court-martial, may get prison time, but by no means certain, and likely brief, and will be dishonorably discharged.

If an American officer or NCO clearly shot a soldier or Marine for refusing to engage the enemy (since he's not going to move, it's much harder for there to be an "accident"), it would be very near impossible to cover up, and the military's reaction would be harsh. We have an all-volunteer force, and a different political structure and social tolerance, so cowards are treated a lot more softly. If a few troops beat the **** out of the SOB before he was shipped out of theater, that could get covered up, but murder, no. Mostly, we'd treat the individual in question with the contempt he deserved, and let the MP's and the military justice system process the ******* out.

[MarkG]

mainly my issue is with how some people act surprised and shocked that parts of this world have not progressed as much as the world is supposed to be