I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You mean like we didn't use chemical weapons in Vietnam?

Out of interest, could you list them for me?

[Dom Pedro II]

He's probably referring to Agent Orange.

[Drake Tungsten]

He's probably referring to Agent Orange.

That's what I thought at first, but he couldn't seriously call Agent Orange a chemical weapon. There must been some sort of gas we used to clear out tunnel complexes or something that che is talking about. Right?

[chequita guevara]

Agent Orange, for one. Just because the defoliants weren't directed at human beings doesn't mean that they didn't cause lots of harm to people. As bad as Agent Orange has hurt American vets, it's hurt Vietnam even worse. It meets the test as a chemical weapon.

Right now, the US is spraying dangerous defoliants in Columbia. It not only kills the coca plant, but just about everything else green also, like food crops. It also makes people and animals sick.

[Drake Tungsten]

And so my faith in che is shattered. Now herbicides count as chemical weapons...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
And so my faith in che is shattered. Now herbicides counts as chemical weapons...

They do when they kill people.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Agent Orange, for one. Just because the defoliants weren't directed at human beings doesn't mean that they didn't cause lots of harm to people. As bad as Agent Orange has hurt American vets, it's hurt Vietnam even worse.

Yes, but while AO is a chemical, it's not a weapon. I was under the impression a weapon had to be purposefully designed or purposefully used to hurt or kill... AO was never designed to hurt or kill and was not used in that way. I think they did not realize that it was dangerous until later...

Something being dangerous does not make it a weapon, just like saccharin chewing gum that is discovered to cause cancer is not a weapon.

[Drake Tungsten]

BTW, the "dangerous defoliant" America is dropping on Colombia is Roundup. This "dangerous" chemical weapon is present on just about every farm in America. Hell, my dad has some in his garage. Better call in the weapons inspectors...

[chequita guevara]

It was used as a weapon, not against people, but against terrain. Not all weapons have people as their primary targets. For example, the US has used biological weapons against Cuba twice (as far as we know). Once they introduced swine fever, which resulted in half a million of Cuba's pigs having to be destroyed. Recently we've sprayed a type of scale (thripsis) over Cuba, which attacks Cuba's crops.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
BTW, the "dangerous defoliant" America is dropping on Colombia is Roundup.

Roundup isn't the one I'm talking about. This particular pesticide I'm talking about is a fungus.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It was used as a weapon, not against people, but against terrain. Not all weapons have people as their primary targets. For example, the US has used biological weapons against Cuba twice (as far as we know). Once they introduced swine fever, which resulted in half a million of Cuba's pigs having to be destroyed. Recently we've sprayed a type of scale (thripsis) over Cuba, which attacks Cuba's crops.

It's arguably a weapon when used against swine, for instance, because swine are economically important to people. Foliage generally is not, therefore chemicals that kill foliage are not weapons (while chemicals that kill rice crops, for example, could be classified as such).

We have words like "herbicide" for chemicals that are not weapons. AO is an herbicide.

[Drake Tungsten]

This particular pesticide I'm talking about is a fungus.

Well, there's no evidence that the fungal pesticide is dangerous. A guy who writes for our college paper *****ed about the same thing in a column and got ripped to shreds afterwards. You'd be suprised how pissed off ag professors get when you make false claims about the products they invent...

[Willem]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
And so my faith in che is shattered. Now herbicides count as chemical weapons...

If they're so destructive that they kill can someone, and they are used in that cotenxt then yes, they are. I grew up on a farm and we used herbicides; and you definitely don't want to be drinking the stuff out of the bottle, or rub it over your body. You'd be dead in no time. If those same chemicals are used in a combat situation then they would be considered chemical weapons.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
BTW, the "dangerous defoliant" America is dropping on Colombia is Roundup. This "dangerous" chemical weapon is present on just about every farm in America. Hell, my dad has some in his garage. Better call in the weapons inspectors...

My father used to used it as well, and it can be very nasty stuff if not handled properly. Try taking a drink of it sometime and see how long you live. There have been calls over the years by enviromentalists to have it's used banned, since it a fairly nasty poison, and damaging to the soil and ecosystem if not applied correctly.

[Drake Tungsten]

If those same chemicals are used in a combat situation then they would be considered chemical weapons.

They're not being used in combat situations. Agent Orange was used in Vietnam to kill off the vegetation in the jungle to make US operations easier. Roundup is sprayed on coca fields in Colombia to kill the plants. They're herbicides, not chemical weapons.