Flag waving.......Flag burning

[Tiamat]

I didn't intend for anyone to get banned over this. I finally have an opinion and it has to be about this

The bottom line on this for me is.....yes I'm proud of my Flag, no it isn't just a piece of cloth to me. My family gave their lives and time and honor defending the Flag so when someone does burn it especially some young wet behing the ears kid who wasn't even a twinkle in his mother's eyes while the Vietnam war was going on much less WWII, sitting there shouting "hell no we won't go" doesn't even have a clue what he's talking about. They are just spouting retoric or something they read in a book.

And I have to agree. I think those same kids would take a different view if they had to go and live in a country without privilage and freedom and cd players and cell phones and street corners on which to burn their country's flag. To much is just assumed in this country and you know what they say about assume.

[Dis]

Tiamat, just don't get too upset over that. They are trolls, plain and simple. Most of them have no real values or ideals. They just do it to piss off the norm. I'm talking about the flagburners btw in addition to the trolls on this forum. They have the same objective of pissing people off.

[Dis]

And Cinna. Do you not believe horrible things are going on over there?

Saddams oldest son has scout go out and pick up women for him to rape. He killed a military officer he did not like and raped his wife and threw her over a balcony.

Do you not care about women being raped?

I thought liberal anti-war people were supposed to care about those things

And I already illustrated why we can't help other nations in need. Because we would get our asses kicked. We are a strong nation- but not that strong!

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Our mods are leftists, didn't you know ?
More seriously, they try to only punish name calling and incivility, not opposed views. You can be leftist however you want, if you are civil by doing so, seemingly.

Spiffor, I'm back. Thanks for your support.

In earlier posts, you said that you do not understand why Americans feel the way we do about our flag and that you do not feel the same way about the French flag. I suggest this has a lot to do with our different histories.

If you know, can you give us a brief history of your flag?

From some of the things I have seen on the web, the French do not trace their nation to the Franks, per se, but to the Romans and Gauls before them. Given such a long history and change of governments, I can see how one can be a little blaze about the current government and its flag.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Dissident
And Cinna. Do you not believe horrible things are going on over there?

Saddams oldest son has scout go out and pick up women for him to rape. He killed a military officer he did not like and raped his wife and threw her over a balcony.

Do you not care about women being raped?

I thought liberal anti-war people were supposed to care about those things

And I already illustrated why we can't help other nations in need. Because we would get our asses kicked. We are a strong nation- but not that strong!

One more time: you can be both anti-Saddam and anti-war. Many of us are. Many of us feel that while Saddam is a very bad guy, inspections and containment were working, and he certainly wasn't worth shredding the fabric of Internationalism over. Bush may have ended, once and for all, the feeling around the world that the US actually had some moral authority, and not just big guns. We may get Iraq, but at the expense of the esteem in which we were once held by many, many other nations and peoples. Will it have been worth it? Time will tell, but those of us who doubt it must protest, not in favor of Saddam but against what President Caligula is doing to the nation we love.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Dissident
Tiamat, just don't get too upset over that. They are trolls, plain and simple. Most of them have no real values or ideals. They just do it to piss off the norm. I'm talking about the flagburners btw in addition to the trolls on this forum. They have the same objective of pissing people off.

Sorry dis, but I'm not going to fall into THAT troll

Tiamat: OK, its your right to love your flag. But just dont take it so personal if someone burns the flag. It means they hate the current government (usually.).

(Argh. I have to make this post sound nice with no trolls...) I respectfully disagree with you. Your family hasn't died for the flag....its died for freedom and liberty. It's died so that others CAN burn the flag. Or not burn it. Or so someone can go out and say "Down with Bush! Down with Clinton!" or wave a communist flag. Your family has died so that we can have private news media and so that you can go down and buy some candy without needing government approval or so that a group of Russian, Japanese, and Arab immigrants can come over to this country to start a new life. Your family has died for all that and more, but not for a flag.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I respectfully disagree with you. Your family hasn't died for the flag....its died for freedom and liberty. It's died so that others CAN burn the flag. Or not burn it. Or so someone can go out and say "Down with Bush! Down with Clinton!" or wave a communist flag. Your family has died so that we can have private news media and so that you can go down and buy some candy without needing government approval or so that a group of Russian, Japanese, and Arab immigrants can come over to this country to start a new life. Your family has died for all that and more, but not for a flag.

Now that might be the most intelligent thing I've ever seen you write.

More of that; less of being a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk, okay?

[DinoDoc]

I didn't think you had it in you, Tass.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Guynemer
More of that; less of being a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk, okay?

Alright........At least I wont be banned for it

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Sorry dis, but I'm not going to fall into THAT troll

Tiamat: OK, its your right to love your flag. But just dont take it so personal if someone burns the flag. It means they hate the current government (usually.).

(Argh. I have to make this post sound nice with no trolls...) I respectfully disagree with you. Your family hasn't died for the flag....its died for freedom and liberty. It's died so that others CAN burn the flag. Or not burn it. Or so someone can go out and say "Down with Bush! Down with Clinton!" or wave a communist flag. Your family has died so that we can have private news media and so that you can go down and buy some candy without needing government approval or so that a group of Russian, Japanese, and Arab immigrants can come over to this country to start a new life. Your family has died for all that and more, but not for a flag.

OMG!

First post Ive read where you haven't been an ass hole! You might actually make some friends at this rate

Kman

[SlowwHand]

I don't care one iota if a "foreigner" burns the American flag, but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand down while some son of a bisquit eater American citizen does it in the name of "free speech". Especially a career civilian.

[Zkribbler]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean defending only the speech you agree with. "Freedom of speech" means defending other people's right to express ideas that you've spent your whole life fighting against.

The biggest threat to American's freedoms comes from those people who take the position that you're only a patriot if you support to government's position and that anyone who burns a flag in protest hates America.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean defending only the speech you agree with. "Freedom of speech" means defending other people's right to express ideas that you've spent your whole life fighting against.

No one said they'd ban burning the flag. We've just said that those that do better watch out for our counter free-speech .

[Nubclear]

OMG!

First post Ive read where you haven't been an ass hole! You might actually make some friends at this rate

Kman

Hmm, I seem to be recieving a very positive response.

I suppose I should continue down this behavioral track

[Agathon]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I don't care one iota if a "foreigner" burns the American flag, but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand down while some son of a bisquit eater American citizen does it in the name of "free speech". Especially a career civilian.

Listen to yourself. More power to the flag burners I say.