Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A shrill voice

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A shrill voice

    So today Republicans went after Tom daschle for his comments: this is not particualrly about daschle, but about an interesting reality about America today.

    Over the last 50 years the amount of real sacrifice the average American has to undergo while the nation is at war has gone down, and down dramatically. This phenomenon, of Amercian civilians having to sacrifice was highest during our independence and the Civil war of course, with the two world wars also demanding much sacrifice, mainly economic. In both Korea and Vietnam millions of conscripts saw combat as they were rotated. Since the end of the concript army and the growing dependence of high tech, the number of Americans at war has gone down greatly, and any real home front sacrifice has also come to an end. Our current technological advantage means that the possible US casualties get lower and lower every day. Our tech lead means fewer and fewer American families will have to mour the loss of family.

    Yet, while the amount of sacrifice to be had has gone down, the intollerence of dissent at wartime has increased with time. Read what the anti-war press said during the civl war of Lincoln, at the same time hundreads of thousand fought and towns and cities burned. It was vicious, little above libel. Even during world war 2, opposition press could be very harsh about Roosevelt, if not as harsh as before, and during the Vietnam and Korean wars, wars which lasted years and took thousands of American lives, the critism of politicnas like truman and Johnson was common. Today, we are about to embark on a war that shall be nowhere near as long, nor costly in US lives, and yet to say a bad thing about president bush becomes an act of treason...

    So, why has America become less open to critisms of our political leaders during war than before? Is this a good thing?
    If you don't like reality, change it! me
    "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
    "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
    "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

  • #2
    something changed after september 11
    CSPA

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't know what happened before, but I don't think we should exaggerate the lowering of free speech in the US. Sure, conservative people will call "un-American" any person who'll oppose the war. Sure, some patriotic thugs will be verbally or physically violent with noted anti-war people.
      But it doesn't mean anti-war people have no right to express themselves. There is much anti-war propganda on the 'net, including in the US and anti-war people represent a significant share of the US population, even though they're not the majority .
      The real problem today is the complete lack of organized criticism against war in the media. Only a few newspaper are anti-war, while information networks are outstandingly pro-war, both CNN and Fox (Fox is more pro-war, of course). The Democrats backing the war don't help fighting its twisted cause in the media either.
      "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
      "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
      "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

      Comment


      • #4
        what about the anti-war people who are verbally and physically violent with the pro-war people? I was suprised at how much violence I have seen on the news from anti-war people. And this is from CNN- a supposedly liberal news outlet. So it must be true

        Comment


        • #5
          Here in France, CNN is considered like a rabid war-advocate, even though we know Fox manages to be worse I have yet to see an anti-war commitment from CNN. Since CNN looks pretty conservative to me, I assume the whole "liberal media" thing is a myth to push the media to the right.
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Spiffor
            Here in France, CNN is considered like a rabid war-advocate, even though we know Fox manages to be worse I have yet to see an anti-war commitment from CNN. Since CNN looks pretty conservative to me, I assume the whole "liberal media" thing is a myth to push the media to the right.
            This is a serious question:

            How does the populus of France feel, I mean, the United States has been involved in liberating or rescuing France on at least 3 occasion, WW1, WW2 and Vietnam (Southeast Asia). Now France talks smack about United States going to War.

            I wonder if maybe next time France gets into scrape, you know, gets their AR$E'$ kicked, if they were whimpering for help, how would they feel if the U S stated, "Get someone else"

            I am serious, couldnt be more so.

            It is a real kick in the teeth when we have done so much for France and yeah you gave us a monument, but forreal, short memory.

            I am proud to be an American and yeah I would help out France or any other country whom is being oppressed with my Red, White and Blue Blood.

            I am just appalled by all these countries lining up when we have helped so many time in and time out, with Military Intervention, Economic aid and Favorable Political juggling.

            I mean no disrespect to France but merely am curious, I mean plenty of people here bash America and I am sincerely curious how France feels, of course, maybe France doesnt have any mirrors, so looking themselves in the face may not be an option?

            Peace

            Grandpa Troll
            Hi, I'm RAH and I'm a Benaholic.-rah

            Comment


            • #7
              how can you be serious with a screen name like that.

              Please don't bring up the past. it pisses the French off

              Comment


              • #8
                WW1: lol

                Nice to show up for the last few months of the war

                Viet Nam: the French had already lost the colony. It was over. US intervention was unsuccesful anyways


                I wonder how the French felt when the US went against them in the Suez crisis after they'd so valiantly saved the US in the Revolutionary war and the War of 1812...
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dissident
                  how can you be serious with a screen name like that.

                  Please don't bring up the past. it pisses the French off
                  Better be pi$$ed off then pi$$ on is what I have been told.

                  I am very proud to be an American and am curious as to how all these other countries rate themselves.?

                  Peace

                  Grandpa TRoll
                  Hi, I'm RAH and I'm a Benaholic.-rah

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Down with Daschle. The creep. He argued when Clinton was in power that war with Saddam was inevitable. Earlier this year he said it was time to keep petty politics out of the Iraqi issue. And yet yesterday he hammer's Bush for trying, but failing, to get a second resoultion from the UN? Most Americans know what happened and do not blame Bush. So, Daschle is being purely political in his unfair attack.

                    On the issue of the press and the War, Donahue was strongly anti-war. Unfortunately, his show was up against the strongly pro-war O'Reilly. O'Reilly outdrew Donahue by an order of magnitude. Donahue was cancelled.

                    The networks can count viewers and can draw their own conclusions. After all, they cannot be too far out of step with the American people or else they lose money.

                    OTOH, I understand the non US news is heavily anti-war. Are these independent news networks, or are they run by the government, by and large?
                    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Frogger
                      WW1: lol

                      Nice to show up for the last few months of the war

                      Viet Nam: the French had already lost the colony. It was over. US intervention was unsuccesful anyways


                      I wonder how the French felt when the US went against them in the Suez crisis after they'd so valiantly saved the US in the Revolutionary war and the War of 1812...
                      ...and WW2 the U S had nothing to do with Frances being liberated?


                      Peace

                      Grandpa Troll
                      Hi, I'm RAH and I'm a Benaholic.-rah

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Did I argue that?

                        I can't seem to find it.

                        How do you explain the ingratitude shown the French when you didn't support their unjust war against Egypt after they'd helped you out 1775-1781?
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So 50 years ago the US and UK, and Free French and Polish forcesdrove the Germans out of France. What does that mean today? Nothing.

                          Get over it..the French did, and so should you.

                          The networks can count viewers and can draw their own conclusions. After all, they cannot be too far out of step with the American people or else they lose money.


                          So you think Americans have become less tolerant of war dissent even as the price they have to pay has dropped so dramatically? Why? Why is it that when people felt the impatc of war they were willing to criticize political leaders while today, when we don't you claim they are less willing to do so?
                          If you don't like reality, change it! me
                          "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                          "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                          "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don't think we french are unaware of what US did for us during WW2 (at least, not me, and believe me i'm not the only one).

                            The whole thing is, does it induce for France to follow US's orders until the end of times ? 2 friends can have differents opinions about something, but still be friends.
                            "An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind" - Gandhi

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OTOH, I understand the non US news is heavily anti-war. Are these independent news networks, or are they run by the government, by and large?


                              They're all run by the government.
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X