A shrill voice

[St Leo]

...and WW2 the U S had nothing to do with Frances being liberated?

Well, the US didn't have a choice in WW2. It was either that or letting USSR "liberate" France.

[Spiffor]

Troll :
I belong to the French youth, and I didn't have the opportunity to discuss it with older people, or even people who lived during WW2.

In France, everytime you mention the end of WW2 (to the French, WW2 is strictly separated in 3 categories : the debacle, the occupation and the liberation), the French will prove very thankful to the Americans for what they've did.
In the wake of Sept. 11, I recall some people said "we shouldn't say it's America's fault ; after all, they saved us in 1945". These people remain uncomfortable when the US is criticized, even though the recent climate makes America-bashing something orthodox.

However, there is a big difference between the perception of America by the French and the other way around : while the Americans know France mostly through WW2 and De Gaulle's barkings, along with some touristic prejudices, the French judge America on about everything they've done since WW2. Also, American movies and American way of life are much, much more significant in France than the other way around. Because of this presence, America gets often bashed for whatever reason :
- The peasant struggle against the "malbouffe" (badfood) begun with the destruction of a McDonald's
- The filmmakers' struggle for the "cultural exception" in GATT bargainings was aimed against Hollywood crap
- the US is often mentioned by left-wing papers as an example of horrible welfareless society (but Britain is pretty much mentioned too)
- the rather pro-Palestinian population blames the US of unconditionally supporting Israel (it has abated recently)
etc, etc.

In short, our judgment on the US doesn't only come from WW2.
That's why the French are rather antiamerican these times (believe me, such a wide antiamericanism is very recent). We don't intend to be 100% loyal to the US for the rest of the time because of WW2. Just like you won't support France for the rest of the time because of the war of independance.
From what I've seen here, many Americans basically stop at WW1&2 when they're talking about France, to explain how whimpy or how ungrateful the French are. The French use many more historical and current references when judging the US.

how all these other countries rate themselves.?

In France, I have seen much less flag-waving in my entire life than the flag waving I have seen from American posters in my short time on Apolyton. The last great display of flags I've seen was the victory at the football world cup in 1998, where the Champs Elysées were full of French flags. You susually see French flags only on public buildings here, never in the hands of people.
However, most French people are happy / proud of their country and their culture. Most people believe France is different than other countries, and often consider France better. There is a big French ego, which leads us to criticize about anything foreign countries do poorly. Hence, we harshly criticized chief crook Berlusconi's election for example. We have been much more silent since chief crook Chirac won with 82%
France has several national shames that are widely discussed : collaboration with nazi Germany and torture during the Algeria war are widely discussed and known throughout the French public. There is an official guilt which obviously limits flagwaving.

I am living in Germany this year, and the Germans have ashamed themselves of their country since WW2, even though things are slowly changing. A German friend of mine explained she got insulted when she told a fellow German she was proud of her country.
I have yet to see a German waving his flag, explaining how things are better in his country. Again, football seems to be the only time in which people shout "Germany"

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
OTOH, I understand the non US news is heavily anti-war. Are these independent news networks, or are they run by the government, by and large?

In France, 2 major TV channels have the most influence on the news and public opinion : the private TF1 and the public France2. There are many public radios, among which one of the major stations, but even more private radios, among which 2 major ones. There is no public newspaper that I know of, except the official publication for new laws (I have never seen it being sold).
TF1 and other private channels work closely with the governments, and their mother company get juicy public deals out of it (public works' Bouygues owns TF1, Vivendi Universal own(ed?) Canal+). 2 private groups have most of the private newspapers and magazines. These business interests are generally in favour of right winged politicans.
Currently, I see more dissent against the government on the public France2 than on TF1, but all the media oppose the war, like nearly all the politicians (only a few center-right and free-marketers politicians voice their agreement with war).


I haven't seen TV much in Germany, however there are many public TVs and radios generously funded by the TVtax. These channels are not marginalized and belong to the most important channels. However, big private channels exist too. I don't know which ones are most influential in building the public opinion.
I don't believe there is any significant state-owned newspaper in Germany, if there is any at all. All major newspapers and newsmagazines are private.