Did we score a victory?

[yavoon]

our general middle east policy is keep the gov'ts as friendly to us as possible and dont let anyone conquer anyone else.

I think ur basically spouting crap. I refuse to believe saddam was that stupid. like we're just going to let dictators run around invading ppl for theft of oil. you have to be absolutely kidding me.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

I should care about the Kuwaitis why?

You're a real humanitarian, che...

400,000 people who practice slavery and do very little of their own work. They have all of the bad habits of the Saudi government with none of the morals. They partied in discos in Egypt while the world liberated their oil fields.

[Asher]

[PLATO]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
They're not defending Hussein. They're exposing the Emperor's new clothes. There's a difference. We'd all like to see Hussein go. It's just that some of us don't think the price should be paid in thousands of Iraqi lives.

Others, like me, are unabashed anti-imperialists, and see no good coming of the US's ability to start wars at its pleasure.

Who's lives do you want to see expended? Even in this thread the anti-war crowd is not arguing the "he probably has WMD" kind of quotes. Sadam has invaded two countries in his reign. Are you supposing he just wants them to have them and not to use them?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by PLATO1003


Boris, They had a decreasing GNP in the mid 1980's. Prior to Saddam taking over you are correct...they did have one of the highest living standards in ME. All downhill since then.

What changed...Sadam took power.

I'd like some support for that.

http://www.arab.net/iraq/iq_economy.htm

Remember that Iraq's economic woes in the 1980s were a result of two major things: The Iran-Iraq war and the oversupply of oil in the mid-80s.

Iraq's GDP was ten times higher than it is now in 1990.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
They have all of the bad habits of the Saudi government with none of the morals.

Damn! Are you sure? That would make the local gangsters role models by comparison.

[Drake Tungsten]

Goodnight all. I'm off to cry myself to sleep...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by yavoon
I think ur basically spouting crap. I refuse to believe saddam was that stupid. like we're just going to let dictators run around invading ppl for theft of oil. you have to be absolutely kidding me.

You're now just ignoring my arguments and continuing along a line of faulty reasoning.

Again, if Hussein had been supported in a war by the U.S. in the past, and U.S. officials gave him a de facto assurance of non-interference, why was it so "stupid" for him to have invaded Kuwait?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


As I said in the last post, he had no real reason to think the U.S. would stop him, since we had supported his aggression against Iran in the past, and since a U.S. Ambassador assured him the U.S. didn't intend to interfere no matter what he did.

Bori, I don't remember April's statements as being that strong. Just from memory I believe she told Sadam, without consultation with Washington, that the US had no position on an Iraqi-Kuwaiti dispute. Certainly this is not the assurances you purport them to be.

[yavoon]

cuz we supported him to stalemate iran. my point is he wasn't given assurances that he could occupy kuwait.

its possible that someone told him he could destroy the oil fields in northern kuwait. but I doubt that too.

u repeat ur crap just as much as me. so dont point fingers.

its not that we liked saddam nemore than we liked the freedom fighters in afghanistan. we were just picking sides of convenience, its not like "we had saddams back." so I don't think he was so stupid that when it becomes abhorently against our interests to let him do something that we'll let it slide just cuz u know, we friends dawg.

[PLATO]

I'd like some support for that.

I'll get it for you and post it here.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by PLATO1003


Bori, I don't remember April's statements as being that strong. Just from memory I believe she told Sadam, without consultation with Washington, that the US had no position on an Iraqi-Kuwaiti dispute. Certainly this is not the assurances you purport them to be.

The quote was "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary [of State James] Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction ... that Kuwait is not associated with America."

That is an implicit statement of U.S. non-interference. For an Iraqi dictator fishing for assurances of there being no U.S. repercussions, I can't see how Hussein could have been any less delighted with such a statement.

That the statement did or didn't have approval from Washington I don't know...nor will we ever know.

[uh Clem]

So if I understand this correctly, we're going to war to improve Iraqi living standards, especially WRT the status of women.

Sure, it's worth a shot. Makes as much sense as anything else that's been claimed as a reason.

[orange]

Drake - good. Go cry. You make no arguments, you regurgitate a few spoon fed propoganada snippits, and tell others that they are wrong with airtight logic like "France is a dumb nation"

Just piss off already. Jesus Christ...

[PLATO]

Gross Domestic Product (GDP): estimated at US$35 billion in 1986; in 1987 GDP estimated to have a 1.7 percent real growth rate, after negative growth rates 1981-86. Following outbreak of war with Iran in 1980, oil production decreased sharply.

lcweb2.loc.gov

Library of Congress data.

You are correct in your statement that his 1st invasion of a foriegn country (1 year after taking power) started the colapse of the Iraqi economy.