How long will it take to repair the damge to America done by the Bush regime

[Spiffor]

Wow, this is the first DanS' troll ! j/k

More seriously, I really wonder what good happened to the US under Bush's rule. Except for very small occurences, I fail to see anything positive for the US.

[Drake Tungsten]

Except for very small occurences, I fail to see anything positive for the US.

We've found out who our real friends are on the world stage. That's invaluable...

[Kramerman]

Re: How long will it take to repair the damge to America done by the Bush regime

'till shortly after victory in Iraq... I doubt ther will be any lasting schism

[MRT144]

We've alienated everyone who isnt our sissy *****

[Spiffor]

Your "real friends" will change in less than 3 years. If you think any country is siding with you out of friendship, you'll be sorely disappointed as soon as their short term interests won't coincide with yours.
Maybe Blair's UK is a genuine friend to the US. Others side with the US opportunistically, by the same way some countries oppose the US out of opportunism. Don't be fooled.

[Drake Tungsten]

Others side with the US opportunistically, by the same way some countries oppose the US out of opportunism. Don't be fooled.

BS. How are the interests of the UK, Australia, Spain, Japan and South Korea served by a war in Iraq? They aren't, which shows that these countries are real allies of the United States.

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: How long will it take to repair the damge to America done by the Bush regime

Originally posted by Kramerman
'till shortly after victory in Iraq... I doubt ther will be any lasting schism

Between America and Europe, the schism will probably cease after the Iraq crisis. Especially since diplomats seem bent on abating the diplomatic rage that occured.
However, there are good chances America gets even more hated by the Arab world with the war, and only a very deep policy towards the Arabs (and a solution to the war in Israel) can change this tide.

Also, with all Bush's provocations towards muslim fundamentalists, the political situation in Afghanistan is more and more difficult for Musharraf to manage, and Afghanistan might end up being the first Islamic nuclear power. You can imagine how ugly this can become if this power backs the Taliban again, or if it stops the old rivalry between Pakistan and Iran.

I think Bush has considerably helped the cause of Antiamericanism worldwide. While this antiamericanism will probably end in traditional US allies (i.e Europe), it will continue and progress in all countries that encourage it. And THAT would be a shasm.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Except for very small occurences, I fail to see anything positive for the US.

We've found out who our real friends are on the world stage. That's invaluable...

Real friends try and stop you from doing something dangerous, stupid, and illegal.

[johncmcleod]

The war might help the economy. Of course, you can't predict what will happen in the war but the most likely situation is us completely overwhelming Iraq, especially if we have help from the UN. The swift victories for us will boost investor confidence, just like the Battle of Coral Sea and Midway did. That's my prediction. I agree with Kman, I don't think there will be a great schism besides right after the war. We'll get a new president and the world will think, "The last pres made a bad decision, they have a new one now." and they won't be mad, hopefully. The economy started to go sour at the end of Clinton's last term, so it wasn't Bush's fault. The technology bubble was bound to burst sooner or later.

What I'm worried about is what the Arab world will think after the war. I'm scared of another 9/11.

[Drake Tungsten]

Real friends try and stop you from doing something dangerous, stupid, and illegal.

Real friends maintain their loyalty while trying to push you onto another path. That is what Tony Blair and the UK have tried to do.

Real friends don't openly lead the opposition to your efforts, even if they think you're making a mistake. France is no friend to the United States, no matter how you spin it...

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Real friends try and stop you from doing something dangerous, stupid, and illegal.

Real friends maintain their loyalty while trying to push you onto another path. That is what Tony Blair and the UK have tried to do.

Real friends don't openly lead the opposition to your efforts, even if they think you're making a mistake. France is no friend to the United States, no matter how you spin it...

Real Friends don't sh*t on their allies, and threaten them economically the first instance they disagree.

Friendship works both ways.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Others side with the US opportunistically, by the same way some countries oppose the US out of opportunism. Don't be fooled.

BS. How are the interests of the UK, Australia, Spain, Japan and South Korea served by a war in Iraq? They aren't, which shows that these countries are real allies of the United States.

UK : according to the Brits here, Blair tries to give an international standing to the UK by modifying the US policy. Blair is mostly credited with sending Bush to the UN. Also, the UK needs a strong alliance with the US for its technology transfers, and military efficiency (intelligence exchanges and such). But I admit the UK is probably the only country which follows the US out of friendship.

Spain : Care to wonder why the Axis of Vassals took a whole week to write its letter supporting Bush ? Spain and Italy (and Britain) are playing a power struggle against France and Germany within the EU. The construction of the Common Foreign and Security Policy is at stake. Aznar took the opportunity to oppose the homogenous power within Europe (French-Germany) by siding with the homogenous power outside Europe. Also, Aznar tries to give the long lost Spanish international status : the Persille affair went in that direction, the participation in writing tomorrow's resolution too.
You can be sure Spain will oppose the US if it messes with Morocco. Spanish position is purely opportunitic.

South Korea : They need a powerful ally against the dangerous NK (which has the potential to level most of Seoul extremely quickly, according to Seeker). China would be a good ally, but China's motivations in helping SK would be much worse than US' motivations, and they are looking for as many allies as possible anyways. Should the US have a policy towards NK too absurd in the eyes SK'ers, SK will flee the US' domination as soon as a satisfying alternative appears.

Japan : It has nearly nothing to lose in that war, and wan win some international recognition if it gets to send peacekeeping troops. Also, Japan wouldn't want to create divisions over such a minor matter for Japan's interests, while the coalition must remain united in the upcoming clash against NK.

Australia : Also, nothing to lose. By showing to the US and the world they have some power projection abilities, Australia can hope becoming recognized as a regional power, and hopes finding wore goodwill from the US next time Australia's and Indonesia's interests will clash. However, I admit the cultural bonds can help Australia to have a generally better goodwill towards the US than others.


In general, I think countries who vocally support the US either need them for protection (Japan, South Korea) or try to snatch some power by being buddy-buddy with the hyperpower. They all have their interests. And I remain sure your "friends" will disappoint you as soon as their interests will be diverging.
After all, some Americans call France an "enemy" because our interests don't coincide with yours on the Iraq issue. Interesting view of what an ally is, don't you think ?

[el freako]

I think that america's fall from 'hyperpower' status will be exacerbated by the fact that it's spending too much on it's military - the US accounts for around 30% of global GDP (estimated using exchange rates) but 45% of world defence spending.

This means that other countries have more resources to devote to investing in their economy and that any future arms race between the major powers will hit the US hardest.
For example, if China and India grow as expected over the next 20 years (China going from 53% of the US to 74%, India from 25% to 40%) then even if they limit their defence spending to the same share of GDP as it is now the US is going to have to raise their spending from the current 4.3% to 6.2% just to keep the ratio between it's spending and theirs the same.

[PLATO]

Re: Re: Re: How long will it take to repair the damge to America done by the Bush regime

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Spiffor [/SIZE

Also, with all Bush's provocations towards muslim fundamentalists, the political situation in Afghanistan is more and more difficult for Musharraf to manage, and Afghanistan might end up being the first Islamic nuclear power.

Afghanistan? Pakistan already is the 1st "Islamic" nuclear power. Iran will probably be next. I just can't see Afghanistan in the "club" under any circumstances.

[KrazyHorse]

Real Friends don't sh*t on their allies, and threaten them economically the first instance they disagree.

Friendship works both ways.

Amen.