How long will it take to repair the damge to America done by the Bush regime

[Adam Smith]

Except for specific problem areas (health, social security) the economy will do just fine if not meddled with. This is the one piece of advice that Robert Solow got into Clinton's head at the start of his first term. Clinton largely followed this advice, and for that he deserves credit. (Yup, you heard it here first. )

I think we will be able to patch things up with Europe in four or five years, once we get rid of our "bull in a china shop" diplomacy, and Europe realizes that their somewhat inflexible economy won't be able to drive the whole world by itself. In short, we really do need each other.

Its going to take a generation to undo the damage we are about to do to our relations with the Arab world. Maybe less if the Israeli-Pal problem gets solved, but thats down the road. The real problem is whether ME demographics, poverty, religion blow the whole thing to hell long before it gets fixed.

[DanS]

The real problem is whether ME demographics, poverty, religion blow the whole thing to hell long before it gets fixed.

I'm convinced that in most part, this war is about demographics. Iraq has, by far, the highest proportion of young people to the general populace in the Middle East. If the status quo is continued, then we have a powder keg on our hands in 10 or so years.

[Ned]

Actually, Che, the Iraq crisis has showed us who are our true friends and who are not. This has helped the world to clarify itself. Clearly, France and Germany want to lead Europe in a path separate from the US. This has nothing to do with Bush.

The events in Iraq will, IMO, help transfrom the Arab states from a group of backward societies into the modern democracies. I can't stay the way it is forever. Reform had to start somewhere. Iraq is that place.

As to the Patriot Act, it was passed by a Democrat Senate. What are we to think? That this is an Imperial EDICT?

[Starchild]

Sitting here in the UK, all I can see is a one-sided and costly "friendship" with America. Our opinions only matter when they are the same as Bush's. Decades of friendship, unconditional solidarity after 9/11, and we got screwed. You told us to f**k off on Kyoto, the ICC, global warming, steel tariffs, WTO rulings, and the latest bit of news is that not a single British company has been consulted on contracts for rebuilding Iraq. Our PM is so busy playing poodle that he's signed his political death certificate.

So it's going to take a long time to undo the foreign damage Bush has done. Yeah, in a few years you can be all friendly with the governments again. There's an entire generation coming up who've only seen America take and never give. You're gonna find yourself without any friends soon.

[Boris Godunov]

Now, now. That damage may only get really set if Bush is re-elected. If we (hopefully) dump Bush in 2004, maybe Europeans will see it as an American repudiation of his negligent idiocy and we can patch things up more quickly.

Ahhh, wouldn't that be nice?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
If we (hopefully) dump Bush in 2004, maybe Europeans will see it as an American repudiation of his negligent idiocy and we can patch things up more quickly.

But they'll always be aware that it could happen again. After all, it's not like we elected the guy, he was forced upon us.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm experiencing melodrama overload...

[Andrew1999]

"The first step is admitting you have a problem."

There are a lot of people out ther who support Reaganomics and "my way or the highway" diplomacy. Repairs won't happen very quickly if no one thinks they need to happen.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

Just waiting for March 17th. yeah

Let this be a lesson to the rest of the world.

[DuncanK]

Adam Smith,

They will surely 'mess' with the economy once it starts acting up. The days of riding out the storm are gone. That was a different generation and their theories proved wrong. They will mess with it and they will surely mess it up good.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
Actually, Che, the Iraq crisis has showed us who are our true friends and who are not. This has helped the world to clarify itself. Clearly, France and Germany want to lead Europe in a path separate from the US. This has nothing to do with Bush.

A path separate from the US, or a path separate from where the US is currently heading?

The events in Iraq will, IMO, help transfrom the Arab states from a group of backward societies into the modern democracies. I can't stay the way it is forever. Reform had to start somewhere. Iraq is that place.

Two points here - arab resentment of western-imposed "reform" will be extremely high among the many "have nots" that won't be the beneficiaries of that reform, and arab "gratitude" will be non-existent among many of the groups empowered and legitimized by reforms. Do you honestly think that organized fundamentalist political parties will be grateful to us for setting up a system that allows them to act politically?

Second, our "allies" in the region are the oppressive thugs who have held down lefties, fundies, and just about everyone inconvenient to their and our interest. In "reforming" the arab world, we'll be undercutting or eliminating the power of our lackeys. That type of reform didn't work real well (although it was internally imposed) in Iran in the 1970's.

As to the Patriot Act, it was passed by a Democrat Senate. What are we to think? That this is an Imperial EDICT?

The Patriot Act was passed by both houses of Congress, but was de facto written by the administration, gives powers to the executive branch, and was packaged and heavily promoted, from the name on, to be essentially unopposable in the immediate post-9/11 atmosphere of "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists." The basic premise of the Patriot Act's marketing was a lie that would make Goebbels proud - we did not need expanded police powers to stop 9/11, and we didn't suffer 9/11 from a lack of those powers.

The identified intelligence failures were huge, and fell into three main categories which are untouched by Patrion: Lack of communication between agencies, (FBI & CIA, plus failures by Rice and the NSC), bureaucratic hindrance of field personnel by headquarters (FBI field offices being denied authority to investigate), and failure to follow established proceedures (INS processing of visas)

[My Wife Hates CIV]

'Two points here - arab resentment of western-imposed "reform" will be extremely high among the many "have nots" that won't be the beneficiaries of that reform'

there's not a whole lot of love out there today...

[DuncanK]

MtG is absolutely right. There is no hope for anything good to come from this war. We should be lucky if its not a complete disaster.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

Originally posted by DuncanK
MtG is absolutely right. There is no hope for anything good to come from this war. We should be lucky if its not a complete disaster.

so things are good the way they are now?

[DanS]

Two points here - arab resentment of western-imposed "reform" will be extremely high among the many "have nots" that won't be the beneficiaries of that reform, and arab "gratitude" will be non-existent among many of the groups empowered and legitimized by reforms. Do you honestly think that organized fundamentalist political parties will be grateful to us for setting up a system that allows them to act politically?

Western-imposed reform taken by itself would cause a lot of resentment. I think the goal is to marry that reform with bricks and mortar on a massive scale immediately.