French to boycott American products ?

[DAVOUT]

Spiffor,

You are, as many others, calling American cultural imperialism what is mainly business imperialism, and any business in the end is always imperialist. For me, MacDo has few connexions with culture, no more than Coca-cola; they have a small influence on the way of life, which is a small part of the culture. But there is an American culture which is not imperialist and which is going along perfectly well with ours: Hubble is a monumental cultural achievement, and the American literature, or the Jazz, to mention only what I appreciate most, are top players in the cultural field.

Interestingly, you were answered by an American member who chose the name of a Greek writer in the specific purpose to write in our virtual world. This is really cultural imperialism!
It is possible that in 2000 years, three young guys choose to be named Hubble, Asimov and Ellington; then only we will know that the American culture was really imperialist.

[Harovan]

The only interesting fact about American culture is, that half of the Europeans feel confident, that it doesn't exist, and the other half feels overwhelmed by it.

[BeBMan]

But I doubt you can it call an "aggression" (neither the US or the French thing) if those people actually want use elements of other cultures (language, food, whatever). I like Pizza - is that an result of Italian cultural aggression or rather of cultural interferences whcih are normal and - IMO - good?

If you don´t like fast food - fine, I do not like it either (I think it is an insult ), but we can´t simply conclude that all others are brainwashed by evil cultural invasions....

[Arrian]

it is symbolical violence. Not bloody, but as agressive and more efficient in this case.

"Symbolic violence" ?

Complete bull****. Since you clearly believe it, and I clearly not only think you're wrong, but perhaps slightly off your rocker, I don't think debating this is the best idea. I'll leave it at that.

-Arrian

[Ned]

And, while you are at it, stop using American inventions such as the telephone, TV, computer, internet, plane, electric lights.

You have to be consistent with your anti-Americanism.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Ned
And, while you are at it, stop using American inventions such as the telephone, TV, computer, internet, plane, electric lights.

You have to be consistent with your anti-Americanism.

I'm sure, many of us would consider this sacrifice, if this would make you stop using missiles, jet fighters and radioactivity.

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Spiffor
"Cultural imperialism" is a standard word here to describe the agressive instillation of American culture in France. IMHO, it is a justified word :
The US don't put a gun on our head to go to McDonald's or to go see "Independance Day". However, an agressive marketing, cohesive with the general idea vehiculated by American products that America is generally cool, is an extremely efficient propaganda, which easily manipulates youngsters.

Most of America's culture is European in origin. That both sides of the atlantic influence each other has nothing to do with imperialism, unless you add Pizza and Mercedes imperialism to your book.

Take Hollywood - the stories are designed in the old european formats, and the implementation of movies like independence day or pearl harbour.. harbor, rather... looks like Leni Riefenstahl meets the Teletubbies.

And the only specific american thing about fast food is the labelling/branding, organising it into chains/franchises.

Cultural imperialism, my ass...

[Arrian]

@ Sir Ralph. Well said.

-Arrian

[Spiffor]

Davout :
I agree with you on the part of American culture which goes along with ours (Jazz, literature and such). Their presence in our culture isn't overwhelming nor threatening in any ways, and as such do enrich our culture.
The American "culture", in the meaning of everyday cultrue (way of life) is very different. It is overwhelming. The latest example is the lame attempt to adapt Halloween in France, which resulted in the degenaration of this fun party (in the US) into a pathetic consumerist rage by us. Sadly, Halloween offsets completely the Toussaint.


BeBro :
The big difference between cultural imperialism and acculturation is the overwhelmingness of the culture. I'm living in Stuttgart this year, where Gehwegs are called 'trottoirs", where wallets are called "portemonnaie" etc. These are the remains of a cultural imperialism, where the nobility dismissed Swabian culture as inferior and flocked to the "superior" French culture.
Also, Cultural imperialism is linked to the political attempt to impose one's culture to other communities. Maybe you don't know the agreement with Marshal's Plan included to lift ratios against American movies ? Do you remember how hard the struggle was during the latest GATT negociations between French and American government about the "cultural exception" ?


Arrian :
I admit we disagree on this, and I understand your decision not to debate this with me (it is probably the topic I'm the most stubborn about ).
However, FYI, you might be interested by the concept of "symbolic violence". It is an interesting sociological concept about the peer pressure and its efficiency into coercing people's behaviour, without blood. The author is Pierre Bourdieu, I'm sure you'd find this notion interesting.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
And, while you are at it, stop using American inventions such as the telephone, TV, computer, internet, plane, electric lights.

You have to be consistent with your anti-Americanism.

As I said, I'm boycotting products I deem to carry cultural imperialism. Edit : and I fail to boycott completely hollywood crap, sad

[Arrian]

No, actually, I'm not interested in the concept of "symbolic violence."

It strikes me as yet another thing made up by sociologists for people to whine about.

You don't like America, Spiff. Thus, all things American are not only bad in some way, but also somehow deliberately coodinated for some nefarious purpose. It's a twisted worldview that upsets me. THAT's why I choose not to debate you. Not because you might be stubborn about it - because I might lose it and say things I shouldn't.

-Arrian

[Bereta_Eder]

yes to the boycotting of American products as a means of pressure to change their policies


Hit'em where it hurts

(I still buy coca cola though )

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
And, while you are at it, stop using American inventions such as the telephone, TV, computer, internet, plane, electric lights.

You have to be consistent with your anti-Americanism.

But then Ned, we would have to stop using cars..... also automatic rifles, tanks, hell, guns in general.

What would the American south be without trucks with gun racks? Oh the Humanity.

On Cultural Imperialism: as I said, I don't see the US having much on an indpendent culture outside of music, where American cultural heritage is strong. How many American movies are directed by Europeans? What makes them American is the money involved and production values (tied with how much money is involved). The quintesential American movie form, the western, is almost dead (and one of the few jump starts it got in the last 30 years was from Westerns made in Italy..), while European movie make bigger and bigger inroads into the US market: think why a Spanish director is nominated for best Director for making a Spanish movie. I think Latin America is an example of how far cultural imperialism can go, and can't. You find US movies and music everywhere, and most TV shows are US shows sindicated, yet the most popular shows are Novelas, made in Latin Amercia (mexico usually), and everyone maintains their way of living (more sedated), eating, and partying.

[Richelieu]

Spiffor : your translation actually makes the original seem better. The french version sounds like it was written by a - not that bright - 13 year old.
This reads like a french version of a bad Boddington's troll.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Arrian
No, actually, I'm not interested in the concept of "symbolic violence."

It strikes me as yet another thing made up by sociologists for people to whine about.

It is sad you dismiss something interesting with these kind of arguments. Wile the concept of symbolic vioelnce is not perfect, it adds to the understanding of society, and to understanding of non-physically-violent pressure. And it rather applies to society as a whole rather than politics, so its intend is not to whine about anything, its intend is to describe a social phenomenon.

You don't like America, Spiff. Thus, all things American are not only bad in some way, but also somehow deliberately coodinated for some nefarious purpose. It's a twisted worldview that upsets me.

I agree this worldview is twisted, heck it's something I got at elementary school