To Americans and the rest of the world...

[zapnic]

boriing!!!

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by zapnic
boriing!!!

Boring but true!

[Drogue]

Sadly very true I know if was supposed to be good for the economy, but surely some governments would have had sense and realised that selling weapons to unstable regimes is not a good think to do, purely for humaitarian reasons

[CICSMaster]

Indeed, and at least the US and the UK are now going to clean up one of their messes.
Why everyone complains, that the US is going to cleanup after it's own policy mistakes, is beyond, me. Surely, that's the whole argument, that the US face up to it's responsibilities and fix problems it has created.

In my eye, the US is being more responsible and mature in this than the EU, which prefers to "take the money and run".

[badman]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The Iraqis haven't admitted to any WMDs, the inspectors haven't found any WMDs and the inspectors certainly haven't destroyed Iraq's WMDs. You're free to your opinion, but it would be better if you based it upon "facts" that aren't blantantly false...

So the inspectors "certainly" haven't destroyed any WMD's?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/12/sprj.irq.inspections/index.html

I admit that the destruction of that mustard gas isn't something to get up and dance about but I think I'm not the only one who should base his opinion on facts.

Those are the more important facts:
The Al-Samoud 2 missiles would not have been destroyed without the inspections. Furthermore the inspections make it really hard - if not impossible - for Saddam Hussein to procede with his programs to build more WMD's.

@ CICSMaster:
Actually I don't see why the Iraq is the responsibility of Us and UK.
Iraq is not an American colony yet. I agree that if Saddam was an immediate threat to peace and stability in the Middle East, like it was in 1990, it is the responsibility of the United Nations (UN, not US) to take actions.
But right now, inspections work as well as war and come a lot cheaper and without the loss of innocent lives.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by badman
I admit that the destruction of that mustard gas isn't something to get up and dance about but I think I'm not the only one who should base his opinion on facts.

Those are the more important facts:
The Al-Samoud 2 missiles would not have been destroyed without the inspections. Furthermore the inspections make it really hard - if not impossible - for Saddam Hussein to procede with his programs to build more WMD's.

@ CICSMaster:
Actually I don't see why the Iraq is the responsibility of Us and UK.
Iraq is not an American colony yet. I agree that if Saddam was an immediate threat to peace and stability in the Middle East, like it was in 1990, it is the responsibility of the United Nations (UN, not US) to take actions.
But right now, inspections work as well as war and come a lot cheaper and without the loss of innocent lives.

to all. Although I don't think Saddam would have destroyed the Al-Samoud missiles without the threat of war there. And I don't believe Saddam has nukes, whereas most biologcial and chemical agents are no more damaging than conventional weapons IMHO.

[GePap]

I do think people overestimate the relation between the Us and Iraq: certainly, the US gave Iraq forms of support during its war with Iran, since we didn't miond them killing Iranians one bit, but in terms of arms sales, the Iranians got more form the US than Iraq (whole, Iran Contra bit).

The Us had no diplomatic relations with Iraq from the late 60's on, since it viewed Iraq as a radical, anti-Israel, soviet leaning Arab regime. The Us re-opened realtions with Iraq in 1983 (that's the famous Rummy pic), during the Iraq-Iran war, but the US did not actually ever sell Iraq any weapon systems of significance. That was doen buy the Soviets and French. May I add that anyone who points to that as a "sign" of Russian, french "complicity" is an idiot, since the Us at the time approved, and the US does have a history of sdelling weapons to brutal tators, just not this one.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by CICSMaster
Indeed, and at least the US and the UK are now going to clean up one of their messes.
Why everyone complains, that the US is going to cleanup after it's own policy mistakes, is beyond, me. Surely, that's the whole argument, that the US face up to it's responsibilities and fix problems it has created.

In my eye, the US is being more responsible and mature in this than the EU, which prefers to "take the money and run".

The problem is that "cleaning up" will cost the iraqui people thousands of lives much more than what the iraqui regime, the intended target, will suffer.

Plus, what guarantee do we have that the US will not make a mistake this time and try to "clean it up" in the future? The US's entire foreign policy in the Middle East is a huge mistake

[Agathon]

You know, when the Intelligence Agencies of both the US and Great Britain are a heartbeat away from open revolt in response to "official" claims they feel are a direct attempt to distort the facts, it's hard to ascribe any form of honest brinkmanship to the war party.

For example this weekend's hoo-haa over bugging will be the first of many whistles blown.

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,910648,00.html

[GePap]

That is a very interesting story: did it come up in poly before? casue I have not seen any mention of it in American newspapers.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by GePap
I have not seen any mention of it in American newspapers.

And people on here say there is a liberal conspiracy against the war in the US media.


Ho hum......

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Master Zen T-55s and Ak-47's are russian not european (european being referred to as EU or euro Nato).

Russia is European. Get over it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior

Russia is European. Get over it.

I'll remind myself of that the next time I'm in Vladivostok.

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by GePap
That is a very interesting story: did it come up in poly before? casue I have not seen any mention of it in American newspapers.

This story was in the Washington Post and on National Public Radio.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior

Russia is European. Get over it.

Did you read what I said in the parenthesis?

Russia is only european from a historical perspective. Geographically it is mainly in Asia, militarily ever since the Cold War it has been in a league of its own, different than the european nations of NATO or the EU.

Therefore, saying T-55s and AK-47's are "European" is absolutely wrong. Get over it.