To Americans and the rest of the world...

[Sandman]

Please define and deferetiate "genoside" and "war" It would help me understand where you are coming from.

I'm not a dictionary.

It would be genocide if you eliminated the entire ethnic group. If you're going to "invent" a language by stealing words from other sources, at least use your language properly.

By that logic, there have been hardly any genocides.

[Gangerolf]

love will conquer all

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Sandman


I'm not a dictionary.



By that logic, there have been hardly any genocides.

Sandman, I was referring to your definitions. If you are going to make that strong an accusation, you should be able to explain what you mean.

If you just used the word because you thought it would sound important and don't know what it means, all you had to do was say so.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Felch X
It would be genocide if you eliminated the entire ethnic group. If you're going to "invent" a language by stealing words from other sources, at least use your language properly.

Apparently genocide is described as merely a credible attempt to wipe out an entire ethnic group (thank you Ramo). So Hitler's campaign against the Jews was a genocide even though he missed a whole bunch of them.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Frogger


Apparently genocide is described as merely a credible attempt to wipe out an entire ethnic group (thank you Ramo). So Hitler's campaign against the Jews was a genocide even though he missed a whole bunch of them.

I think that this is more to my understanding of the word as opposed to actually accomplishing a complete wipeout.

[Spiffor]

PrinceBimz :
Yes, Sept. 11 terrorists are bad guys for sure. They purposefully kill civilians to instill the American people with fear and anger, and to make them do terrible mistakes for the future of America because of it.

Now, they don't have the monopoly of being evil. The US can be the bad guys, even though their enemies are bad as well.
Note, I don't think the US is the bad guy. I do think the US-administration is using the legitimate trauma of September 11 to further their imperialistic and warlike agenda. They betray the trust of the American people into a sorry adventure which has nearly nothing to do with terrorism, a trust the American people gave without hesitation after the horrors of Sept. 11.

You Americans aren't bad guys. Your administration is, even though they're not the only ones.

[Sandman]

Sandman, I was referring to your definitions. If you are going to make that strong an accusation, you should be able to explain what you mean.

Fine, this war will probably involve hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of refugees. It will be genocidal because:

The Iraqis constitute a national group and are therefore eligble to be victims of genocide. (Silly, but that's the law apparently)

The war is an act of naked aggression.

The war will almost doubtlessly target Iraqi infrastructure, resulting in conditions that will bring about the partial destruction of the Iraqi people.

Depleted uranium shells may also have the effect of poisoning the land.

The Iraqi army is so outclassed that this war is best seen as similar to the wars by 19th Century troops against stone-age tribes. Iraqi conscripts may be legally combatants, but effectively they're the same as civilians.

[Zero]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
Any way, didn't Japan DoW because of the US oil Embargo?

pretty much. Since they needed a quick victory in order to fight agst the US, They used the only option that was available to them. [big quote gesture]Pre-emptive attack.[/big quote gesture]

Where else have I heard about this [big quote gesture]Pre-emptive attack.[/big quote gesture]?

[Spiffor]

IIRC, the German declaration of war in 1914 wasn't motivated by fidelity towards Austria-Hungary, but as a pre-emptive strike. Germany feared that France and Russia would attack it sandwich-like some years later, and launched a "quick and easy" war to avoid it.

Everyone thought the whole mess would be finished by the end of 1914.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Sandman


Fine, this war will probably involve hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of refugees. It will be genocidal because:

The Iraqis constitute a national group and are therefore eligble to be victims of genocide. (Silly, but that's the law apparently)

The war is an act of naked aggression.

The war will almost doubtlessly target Iraqi infrastructure, resulting in conditions that will bring about the partial destruction of the Iraqi people.

Depleted uranium shells may also have the effect of poisoning the land.

The Iraqi army is so outclassed that this war is best seen as similar to the wars by 19th Century troops against stone-age tribes. Iraqi conscripts may be legally combatants, but effectively they're the same as civilians.

Okay, that clears that up.

Now,

1.) The Us military is committed to attacking military targets and minimalizing the impact on the civilian population.

2.) The Us is already stockpiling food and relief material to minimize the impact on the civilian population

3.) By no estimate or projection that I have seen would any sizable part of the population become casualties, but just in case the US is stockpiling medical supplies and organizing Doctors and Nurses to help minimize the impact to the Civilian population.

4.) Enforcement of UN resolutions are not "naked aggression" under any definition I know of.

5.) Iraqi infrastructure will not only be rebuilt but will be improved as the country gets to enjoy the fruit of their oil revenue instead of it being pumped into presidential palaces, swiss bank accounts, financing of terrorism, and WMD.

6.) Depleted Uranium is just that...depleted.

7.) The Iraqi army is out classed. When they surrender we will cloth them, feed them, give them shelter, and access to a variety of services from religious to relief.

Further:

The war can be yet avoided if:

1.) Saddam comes clean now. Not tommorrow and not in parts.

2.) Saddam accepts the UAE plan and goes into exile.

3.) The people around him sense their plight and remove him themselves.

If this does not happen then the US will prevent:

1.) Malnutrtion and disease among Iraqi's due to the misappropriation of material by Iraq of the "oil for food" material.

2.) Summary execution of political dissenters.

3.) Payments to the families of terrorist

4.) Threats to Iraq's neighbors

5.) Harbouring of terrorist organizations

I could go on, but your point was about genocide. I hardly think it applies.

[Q Classic]

9/11 != 12/7.

why?

1. Pearl Harbor was a legitimate military target. Civilian casualties were vastly lower. The World Trade Centers were an illegitimate target, its principle victims being civilians and not military personnel.

2. Pearl Harbor's destruction was done after Japan declared war on us and broke off negotiations. Al Qaeda never truly declared war, nor was it ever in negotiations.

3. Pearl Harbor's destruction was undertaken by a hostile national government with the full backing of the nation, and not by small cells harbored by a government. Al Qaeda wasn't a government.

4. Japan was a single, cohesive nation with whom the United States could deal with directly, fighting back state to state. Al Qaeda is not a nation, nor is it truly cohesive. It is a network of cells with few contacts in between, and impossible to deal with as a whole.

•••

9/11 == 12/7

1. They both took a disinterested, rather complacent nation by surprise, but didn't truly shock experts in the area.

======

so please, don't draw the false analogy of the WTC destruction as another Pearl Harbor. because it isn't.

[South killer]

The imperialist thoughts again
I am very sorry about 9/11 and i know very innocent people was killed but that doesn't give usa the right to atack Irak. Unless you believe the stupid bush's excuses (the axis of evil, Irak with links to Al-Quaeda) is obvious that the only reason to attack Irak is the Oil price. That's what the usa has done all over it's history, implanting puppet dictatorships on every country they could but when the dictator didn't obeyed the USA then they knock it down with the excuse of defending democracy and free-speech. If you don't remember well, some years ago the USA SUPPORTED SADDAM but when saddam started to work for the good of Irak and not for tha good of the USA, then they started the gulf war. I'm not saying saddam is a good guy, but saying that the usa only attacks dictators when it's for they convenience.
Also, don't you remember of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Was that a good act? I think we know who are the bad guys....

[PLATO]

Originally posted by South killer
The imperialist thoughts again
I am very sorry about 9/11 and i know very innocent people was killed but that doesn't give usa the right to atack Irak. Unless you believe the stupid bush's excuses (the axis of evil, Irak with links to Al-Quaeda) is obvious that the only reason to attack Irak is the Oil price. That's what the usa has done all over it's history, implanting puppet dictatorships on every country they could but when the dictator didn't obeyed the USA then they knock it down with the excuse of defending democracy and free-speech. If you don't remember well, some years ago the USA SUPPORTED SADDAM but when saddam started to work for the good of Irak and not for tha good of the USA, then they started the gulf war. I'm not saying saddam is a good guy, but saying that the usa only attacks dictators when it's for they convenience.
Also, don't you remember of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Was that a good act? I think we know who are the bad guys....

Without meaning to be rude, this is one of the most ill-informed, stupid posts I have read on this subject.

You neither know who the bad guys are nor any of the facts.

[Ozz]

Re: To Americans and the rest of the world...

Originally posted by PrinceBimz Go back to Pearl Harbor...

Been watching too many John (Chickhawk) Wayne movies. Emotional appeals won't work.

[Comrade Tribune]

Re: To Americans and the rest of the world...

Originally posted by PrinceBimz
How did you feel when you found out what had happened?

'Interesting News. Seems someone had the guts to strike back. They certainly had it coming.'