How come colleges dont want certain minorities?

[GePap]

Do you read the quote? If Jews became bankers in the Middle Ages is because the law did not allow them to become much of anyting else. That was a simple statement of fact. Do you have a problem with facts?

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by GePap
Do you read the quote? If Jews became bankers in the Middle Ages is because the law did not allow them to become much of anyting else. That was a simple statement of fact. Do you have a problem with facts?

Most Jews were NOT bankers in the middle ages, many of the more respectable/well known bankers in the middle ages were Jews, but most were not........do you see the logistical problems with an racial group the size of the Jews(even then) all being bankers? Bankers are by defenition/their need in society a small percentage of the total population, much smaller then the already small # of Jews.

[GePap]

Whatever.. so i did not insert the words "many", or others to state what would be obvious, that not every single individual became one... happy now?

Moving on...

If the smaller minorities like East Asians or South asians have been able to do well, I think it is becasue they fell into strange hole in US racial politics: they weren't black, but you couldn't call them white.. so what are they, in this two sided nation? I think of these groups, the Chinese and Japanese certainly got it worst since they came in large numbers during the height of racism in this country. Koreans and South Asians came latter, and I think that way they avoided most of the most obvious racial discrimination.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by GePap
Whatever.. so i did not insert the words "many", or others to state what would be obvious, that not every single individual became one... happy now?

Moving on...

If the smaller minorities like East Asians or South asians have been able to do well, I think it is becasue they fell into strange hole in US racial politics: they weren't black, but you couldn't call them white.. so what are they, in this two sided nation? I think of these groups, the Chinese and Japanese certainly got it worst since they came in large numbers during the height of racism in this country. Koreans and South Asians came latter, and I think that way they avoided most of the most obvious racial discrimination.

"happy now?"

Yes


It is irregardless if one minority group had more descrimination then another...........if one group was descriminated against(the degree hardly matters if the descrimination is gone) and overcame it, then others should be able to as well.

[GePap]

Not all minorities faced the same thing, so to say that hey, one found success, why couldn't they all is to me too simplistic an answer. Were the Irish a minority? One time they were, but hey were allowed to become part of the majority. Same for Italians, and though more slowly, Jews. All of these gorups are able now to classify themselves as "white", part fo the majority. Blacks never had that ability. I never saw a bus that said: Koreans to the back, Pakistanis to the back. That is not to say that they did not face discrimination: minority groups everywhere face discrimination for beign different. But discrimination was institutionalized for Blacks for the major part of the history of this country.

As I said earlier, to me the issue of hispanics is different: they didn't face institutionalized discrimination the way blacks did: they were treated much like the Chinese, as menial laborers, and many hispanic groups were never poor: take the Cuba exiles, most of which were middle class. Then add the fact that hispanic is a cultural and not a racial term, and you get even more issues.

[Sava]

Yeah let's get rid of affirmative action programs and stuff. So then us white people can have the freedom to discriminate!

[HolyWarrior]

Affirmative action bake sale

Not all college students support racial preferences, and some UCLA students made their feelings known in a highly innovative way.

In early February, Bruin Republicans organized a campus cookie sale -- but not your ordinary cookie sale. They offered cookies at different prices depending on the customer's race and sex. Black, Latino and American Indian females were charged 25 cents for a cookie, while their male counterparts were charged 50 cents. White females were charged a dollar. White males were charged two dollars. Asian males and females also were charged two dollars a cookie.

Students selling the cookies assigned themselves nametags. Some of the name tags read "Uncle Tom," "The White Oppressor" and "Self-Hating Hispanic Race Traitor." Chris Riha, third-year business economics student participating in the Affirmative Action Bake Sale, said that the students decided to one-up their detractors by assigning the names themselves. That's what minorities who disagree with racial preferences are either called, or thought to be: an "Uncle Tom" or self-hating black or Hispanic.

Chairman of the California Democratic Party Art Torres voiced his disapproval, saying, "I am deeply saddened and disheartened at the activities of the Bruin Republicans." He accused them of having been emboldened by Sen. Trent Lott's remarks that led to his ouster as the Senate majority leader. Torres' condemnation was joined by many of UCLA's racial preferences supporters.

Here's my question for those who condemned the event. Why be offended by a money version of racial preferences? After all, it's identical in principle to admission practices sanctioned by university communities across America. In fact, that's what the University of Michigan case before the U.S. Supreme Court is all about -- treating people differently by race.

Some might ask: "Why are Asians charged two dollars? They're a minority." You'd be right. According to the 2000 Census, residents who reported as Asian, or in combination with one or more other races, totaled 11.9 million -- or 4percent -- of our population. In my book that makes Asians a minority and eligible for the cookie affirmative action discount. Instead of being charged two dollars for a cookie, Asian females and Asian males are rightful claimants to the racially discounted price of 25 cents and 50 cents, respectively.

If you see things that way, and think Asian-Americans are eligible for preferential treatment, it simply means that you haven't kept abreast with modern racial enlightenment. A minority group is not a minority if, as a group, it is successful. Asian median family is $55,525, the highest of any other racial group in America. More than 44 percent of Asians age 25 and over have bachelor degrees; the rate for all other Americans was 26 percent. Other indicators of group success would include low crime rate and high family stability. Case closed -- Asians are not a minority.

Being a UCLA alumnus (doctorate 1972), I can sympathize with critics of the Affirmative Action Bake Sale. Were I still a student, I'd walk up to these people and tell them that selling cookies on campus is OK, but it's a despicable, mean practice to treat people differently just because they're members of one race or sex or another.

I'd take a principled stand -- that's where I differ from other critics of the Affirmative Action Bake Sale. They take a situational stand on racial preferences. For them, whether racial preferences are wrong or right depends upon whom it's practiced against.

I'd like to ask my fellow critics just one question: If racial preferences, highlighted by the cookie, are wrong and offensive, why wouldn't it also be wrong and offensive in the university's admissions practices? After all, the Affirmative Action Bake Sale was promoting diversity in cookie ownership.

Walter Williams editorial

[MRT144]

affirmitive action is a crock...

[Japher]

My 2 cents:

Affirmative Action is not about equal opportunity it is about equal success, and should therefor be abolished less we elect Jessie Jackson to office.

The reason certain minorities are not admitted under affirmative action while others are is because those certain minorities already, and have had, the success while other minorities have not.

The reason AA is being abolished, and rightfully so, is that AA once included those minorities that are now successful and no longer take need AA. Yet, for some reason, it is deemed necessary to keep the other minorities, those that have not accomplished the same level of success through AA, within this "special program"? People are realizing that this is not so. That if these other minorities were able to overcome the racisim than why haven't all of them? The answer; they want equal success and not equal opportunity.

Basically, I make the point that Vesayan makes, only with more words and the resounding undertones that attack the ideal of "leaders" of the black (and other minority) community, and uphold the ideals that I-Cube presented in the movie "Barbershop".

The situation of African Americans in the Us is trully different from that of any other group: after all, the whole notion of "white people" was so that every new group, the Italians, Irish, so forth and so on, could integrate while making sure blacks stayed in their place. Poeple are white, because they aren't black, not the other way around.

I am on the fence about Hispanics (being one). Most hispanics are voluntary immigrants, and as such they lack the same historical bias that exists towards blacks.

I don't want to grab Cali and go into a racist rant, but I will if I have to. Yet, for some reason I agree with what you are saying Gepap. However, do you not feel that even with the advantages black people have been given over the past two decades that they have really improved their standard of living by a significant proportion, statistically? I don't. I sadly think that a majority of them chose to oppress themselves, and would rather whine for handouts than to actually work for it like the rest of the immigrants or non-white americans.

Case in point: I grew up in Fresno, CA. We have large communities of blacks, hispanics (first generation Mexican Americans), Hmong (people from Laos), and Armenians. When I started going to school there was a definite division of all the people. There were white, black, hispanic, Armenian, and Hmong neighborhoods. The worse of them was the black neighborhood. I don't mean that it was the most dangerous, it was just the area with lowest property values and most trash in the streets. The Mexican neighb. was a close second. The Hmong was after that, though they were mostly farmers living in lean to's in their fields. Then came the whites, followed the Armenians (I think they were all related to Oberti Olive guy).

Now, 20 years later, the hispanic neighborhood is really nice, and is actually experience the highest boom in property values anywhere in the US. Many of the famillies that have once lived there have crossed the street and are now living amongst the whites. The Hmong's fields have grown, and on the boarders are lovely new track houses. It is amazing what selling strawberries on the side of the road for two decades can get you. The armenians have fell a little in their social status since the commercialization of many of the farms, yet on a whole are still successfully equal with the whites and hispanics in the area. Yet, the Black neighborhood has not changed abit. Well, that is not entirly true, the crime rate has increased... alot.

My point: Certain ethnic minorities are willing to take the advantages they are given, use them to their full extent, and then gladly dismiss them as the prejudice and need for "special" assistance resides. Other ethnic minorities do not. They do not want to work for success, and whine about it when only 50% of a company is minority even though 70% of the community is in the same class. EOE does not, and should not, lead to equal success.

[Q Classic]

A minority group is not a minority if, as a group, it is successful.

huh?

nowhere does that definition show up in the OED, Merriam-Webster, or Dictionary.com.
this one comes closest:

1. The condition or fact of being smaller, inferior, or subordinate. Obs.

note the Obs (= obsolete). add to the fact that asians are discriminated against, particularly in non-scientific fields, such as: politics, acting...

don't get me wrong. i dislike affirmative action, and i think it's silly to attach it to race. but if you attach it to race, you ought to have the decency to attach it to all minority races, including asians.

the only real form of affirmative action that i could probably ever support would be one based on economic strata, rather than race; because often, it's poor people who are locked out of higher education, far more often than those of a particular skin color.

[Jaguar]

We should use AA to help the poor in general. If black guys are disproportionately poor, AA will help them disproportionately, and all will be good.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Racism in America is not REALLY a big issue anymore

Unless you're Black or Hispanic or American Indian or Arab or Indian or . . .

Only a clueless white person could have written what you wrote, Vesayen.

[Japher]

A minority group is not a minority if, as a group, it is successful.


huh?

nowhere does that definition show up in the OED, Merriam-Webster, or Dictionary.com.

Exactly Q Cubed. And that is why AA is full of crap.