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**Dis** · February 25, 2003, 19:54

you know my solution.

Completely abolish affirmitive action obviously.

To avoid any race problems interviews will not be done in person. But done via a computer. A web cam can be used. but a special program will be used to mask the race of the student. You need the webcam because the interviewer needs to determine certain body language when asking questions and such. But I'm sure the image can be edited to filter out the race.

This should ensure that race does not affect whether you get into a college or not.

unless you count for the fact that the SAT is supposedly racially biased

**Agathon** · February 25, 2003, 20:01

Are you against equality of opportunity or something?

**Dis** · February 25, 2003, 20:04

who me?

I want everyone to have the same opportunity. Hence why I laid out my plan above.

If the interviewer doesn't know the race of the person. Then the student would get into college based solely on merit.

**HolyWarrior** · February 25, 2003, 20:04

Read the first post again. These groups succeeded WITHOUT 'affirmative action'. Why can't the rest?

**Buck Birdseed** · February 25, 2003, 20:11

I could give you a Liberal's response to this (opportunity should be evened out based on basic circumstances in order to facilitate as fair and equal society as possible), but I'm not going to bother as I am not a liberal. I'm sure some kind-hearted individualist fool like yourself will step up to the plate and bicker about the technicalities of achieving equality and so on. Also I'm almost certain that's what this thread will turn into.

Never mind. I'll give you my cobbled-together home-made post-modern feminist view anyway. Maybe you can learn something from it- most people will just ignore it, possibly because I'm not an ace at explaining it.

I believe two things that would support trying to create as multicultural a campus environment as possible.

I believe that Opportunity is Power. Without opportunity, the interests and values of other social groups than the currently totally hegemonous ones will never even get the chance to be expressed, much less influence society to an equal degree. Without women in our boardrooms the different knowledge and interest base of women won't even get looked to. Without a representative portion of other cultural groups in our assemblies, there's not even a chance of the cultural values of those groups getting expressed in policy. Representation, especially of minorities, is far from a guarantee that their values will have a bearing on our common knowledge base, but I think it's pretty much a prerequisite. Without representation, one culture will entirely and unfairly dominate all others.

It is in our common interest to smash that, and other, hegemonies. This is because Ibelieve in knowledge as a social product- the ideas of a small, select and culturally homogenous group are doomed to be inadequate in dealing with the changing nature of society. Look at the soviet union- few white men decide everything, a beuraucratic monoculture, less than a century later it goes entirely tits-up. No individual or individual social group can have total knowledge, and will certainly be poor in terms of perspective. Adabtability, flexibility and the ability to take the interest of the multitude of different groups that make up society into account are all lost.

Lemme set a though-excercise for you.

You're given the task of selecting a three-person panel of judges that are to judge a broad range of artistic achievements from a whole set of fields. The only point is to make the panel as a whole as able as possible. Five candidates are presented to you: Three white, upper-class Ivy League men who've known each other their whole lives, are all the same age and have a monthly dinner together, all supreme authorities in the field of comparing artistic ability (in the Harvard tradition). Two somewhat less qualified candidates, one a young hispanic woman, the other an older, gay black man, both with a set of entirely different experiences of field-work and extensive travel, but with nowhere near the theoretic ability. What three do you pick?

**Vesayen** · February 25, 2003, 20:25

Birdseed that explination is rediculous there is no need to artificially allow "opportunity" because by and large people ARENT being denied it....

Racism in America is not REALLY a big issue anymore(Unless you live in the South.......too much racist white trash down there

) so any providing extra opportunities is reverse descrimination.

**Buck Birdseed** · February 25, 2003, 20:33

See? You're missing what I'm taking about entirely. I'm not talking about individual opportunity, I'm talking about groups increasing their share of the power in society by their members having opportunity.

And Racism (or rather cultural hegemonies) exists in every country, everywhere. It's greatest manifestation is in the total monopoly of one set of cultural values and those that adhere to them being the ones in near-total control of the power.

**mactbone** · February 25, 2003, 20:40

Aren't you missing the question? Why are certain minorities given special opportunities that other minorities are not given?

**Vesayen** · February 25, 2003, 20:42

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
See? You're missing what I'm taking about entirely. I'm not talking about individual opportunity, I'm talking about groups increasing their share of the power in society by their members having opportunity.

And Racism (or rather cultural hegemonies) exists in every country, everywhere. It's greatest manifestation is in the total monopoly of one set of cultural values and those that adhere to them being the ones in near-total control of the power.

Groups as a whole are no longer having their opportunities denied so colleges do not need to try some half-assed social engineering program to help those "poor minorities".

**Abdul-Aziz** · February 25, 2003, 20:48

Yes, USA always was and is racist state. Currently it made huge efforts to stop racism against blacks, probably even too big, but now other races starts to get insulted.

**Charlemagne120** · February 25, 2003, 21:05

I've always been a big fan of this idea for minorities to think about:
"if you want equality get the same standards as white guys"

like with the AA...extra points for college admition cause ur black? i want em cause im irish...the irish were put down for years

**mactbone** · February 25, 2003, 21:17

Bzzzt wrong Abdul-Aziz.

http://www.iss.purdue.edu/

This year nearly 4,700 students and 700 faculty and staff from 132 countries are a part of the Purdue Boilermaker family.

For an in depth look -

http://www.iss.purdue.edu/Resources/Docs/Reports/ISS_StatisticalReportFall01.pdf

BTW, by region it goes Asia with a huge number, then Latin America, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, North America, and Oceania.

So, we provide plenty of opportunities to "minorities" (I quote minorities because they may be minorities here, but not in their own country)

**GePap** · February 25, 2003, 21:43

Aren't you missing the question? Why are certain minorities given special opportunities that other minorities are not given?

All the minorities mentioned by Vesayen are overrepresented. Now, you could ask why, and usually, the reason is that that is where discrimination led them (you know, like why Jews became bankers..because that was one of the few jobs they could take up).

The situation of African Americans in the Us is trully different from that of any other group: after all, the whole notion of "white people" was so that every new group, the Italians, Irish, so forth and so on, could integrate while making sure blacks stayed in their place. Poeple are white, because they aren't black, not the other way around.

I am on the fence about Hispanics (being one). Most hispanics are voluntary immigrants, and as such they lack the same historical bias that exists towards blacks.

**Vesayen** · February 25, 2003, 21:47

Originally posted by GePap

Aren't you missing the question? Why are certain minorities given special opportunities that other minorities are not given?

All the minorities mentioned by Vesayen are overrepresented. Now, you could ask why, and usually, the reason is that that is where discrimination led them (you know, like why Jews became bankers..because that was one of the few jobs they could take up).

AH yes I forgot all Jews are rich bankers right?

*checks his wallet and the wallet of every familly member*

Um no.........bad example.

Announcement

How come colleges dont want certain minorities?

How come colleges dont want certain minorities?

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