Question about ethics of Cold War policy.

[David Floyd]

[DinoDoc]

This thread is great especially the part about two hegemonic competitors declaring each other friends.

[David Floyd]

What you don't like my suggestion?

[axi]

Attacking people who are not threatening you, with the justification that they COULD become threatening in the future, is immoral.

Then how about Iraq? Isn't a war in Iraq immoral?

[axi]

As the state develops in capitalism, Marx totally missed the fact that capitalist states will increase government intervention in the economy and form a totally new economic system: The Mixed Economy. The Mixed Economy doesn't have the stratification that Marx required for class revolution.

Mixed economies exist partly because capitalism sometimes is not developped enough to be able to invest in some needed industries, so the state assumes the role of the collective capitalist. In many cases it uses tax money to fund activities that only benefit the capitalists. In other cases, the state wants to be in control because it feels that some industries are too crucial to be left in the hands of private capitalists, but the goal is the survival of the capitalist state, which his the ultimate tool that capitalism posesses in order to oppress and extort. Only in special cases like Scandinavia were mixed economies really created on purpose. But don't forget that Scandinavia had to be a worker's paradise, because the USSR was next door, so if the workers were not pampered and fed, they could easily go to the other side.

[David Floyd]

Then how about Iraq? Isn't a war in Iraq immoral?

Certainly. Where have I once claimed otherwise?

[MrFun]

Since Shi did not want to answer my last question, can someone else answer it?

Why is communism in of itself perceived as being evil by so many people? I disagree with communism, but I fail to see it as something evil.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
What you don't like my suggestion?

It's the best response possible in a thread this amusing.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by MrFun
Since Shi did not want to answer my last question, can someone else answer it?

Why is communism in of itself perceived as being evil by so many people? I disagree with communism, but I fail to see it as something evil.

MrFun, this answer is in some respect too easy. People probably thought the question was rhetorical. It's not that people care if another country is communist, but they care if there own country becomes communist (particularly the wealthy people). If one communist state does well then workers all over the world will see and they will want the same for themselves. So the owners of capital in the capitalist nations spread propaganda about communism being evil, because they fear loosing their elite status in their own country.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why is communism in of itself perceived as being evil by so many people?

I'll take a shot. Communism, at least as practiced in the world, is violent and oppressive. The party leaders are an elite that wishes to take away the fruits and benefits of capitalism. They wish to force people that actually like capitalism into social structures that attempt to force equality, when people don't want total equality. People like what capitalism has done for them. They don't want that violently taken away. The way its been done in the world isn't exactly nice either.

Yes, I'm an anti-communist.

[JohnT]

"If one communist state does well then workers all over the world will see and they will want the same for themselves. "

That's a mighty big "IF." As we have all experienced in the real world, the workers in the Communist societies noticed that the capitalist/mixed societies were doing well and they wanted the same for themselves. Hence, no more Communist countries of note.*

* And please, no arguments about "Communism hasn't been properly implemented." That's for another thread.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why is communism in of itself perceived as being evil by so many people?

I'll take a shot. Communism, at least as practiced in the world, is violent and oppressive. The party leaders are an elite that wishes to take away the fruits and benefits of capitalism. They wish to force people that actually like capitalism into social structures that attempt to force equality, when people don't want total equality. People like what capitalism has done for them. They don't want that violently taken away. The way its been done in the world isn't exactly nice either.

Yes, I'm an anti-communist.

So then because there is so much corruption in democratic and republic governments that means that democracy and republican ideology are in themselves evil too?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Corruption isn't what I was talking about Fun. I'm talking about the forcing of 'equality'. This seeming (and I believe ultimatly has to come to pass in communism) stripping away of indivdualism is very frightening to some people.

Corruption has nothing to do with that.

[MrFun]

I'm familiar with the horrendous crimes that Stalin committed in the name of communism -- tens of millions of Russian lives were wasted.

What I'm saying is that if it is possible to strive towards communism through government policies without disregard for human rights and dignity, then communism in of itself cannot be evil.

I used corruption of democratic governments as an example, since I thought you were stating that because some past communist governments were repressive that all communist governments have to be repressive.


But I do agree with you -- I cannot agree with communism, since I value individualism and the incentive for ambitious iniative in society.

[Ned]

Mr. Fun, the US never declared war on any country that I can recall because they were communist.

The N. K.'s invaded S. K.

The N.V.'s invaded S.V., first through the Viet Cong. Then directly.

We never invaded N.V., although we did push our counteroffensive in Korea into the North as far as the Yalu river.

Your history is a mistery. I do not speak from history. I remember this.