17%

[KrazyHorse]

The western provinces in shock if NDP formed gov't? Probably the whole country.

That's true for any party other than the Liberals.

[Asher]

Not an own goal, I don't know a damn thing about Ontario politics

[Lancer]

We still have enough tanks at home to handle the situation up north.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher
Not an own goal, I don't know a damn thing about Ontario politics

The most hated man in Ontario politics until recently.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Frogger
The most hated man in Ontario politics until recently.

Go NDP Go

[KrazyHorse]

Iron Mike's taken over that spot now, from what I can see.

[KrazyHorse]

Eves is in for some pain when he has to go to the polls...

[Asher]

That's what you get when you build a platform off cloning Klein, only having not-so-great results due to ineptitude.

[KrazyHorse]

Maybe because it's hard to fail when the government gets 1/3 of its revenues from a source not available to other provinces?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Frogger
Maybe because it's hard to fail when the government gets 1/3 of its revenues from a source not available to other provinces?

Dag, yo.
You should see the projected surplus for this year.

$1 in oil == $108M more for Klein.

[Asher]

Speaking of Canadian Politics.

Part 2

http://www.canada.com/calgary/story.asp?id={74F869EA-835D-4250-B4D3-BA390A6B0A17}

Klein scolds Chretien over Grit attitude on West
Sparked by Dion missive

Tom Olsen
Calgary Herald

Saturday, February 22, 2003

Premier Ralph Klein chided the prime minister Friday over a federal minister's letter Klein described as a "condescending lecture" and exactly the kind of eastern arrogance that is alienating Alberta.

The letter from Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Stephane Dion arrived at the Legislature early Friday, and was Dion's attempt to ascertain Klein's exact position on the province's place in Confederation.

"I know you are a committed Canadian and how much Albertans love their country," Dion begins, before launching into a treatise about the dangers of separation.

Members of Klein's staff said the premier was astounded by the tone of Dion's correspondence.

A furious Klein refused to reply to Dion and instead dashed off a response to Prime Minister Jean Chretien within hours, asking Chretien to instruct Dion to direct any further correspondence to his Alberta counterpart, International and Intergovernmental Relations Minister Halvar Jonson, "as long-established precedent and protocol require."

"In responding to you, I seek to know whether you think it is productive for your minister to send such an inappropriate letter to a premier," Klein wrote. He went on to spell out Alberta's commitment to Canada, and said the controversy erupted over "an unduly creative interpretation of a short portion of the Alberta speech from the throne" delivered Tuesday.

Klein then cites a section of the speech, which starts with "Albertans are committed Canadians," and includes the line: "Alberta's ability to be a partner in Canada is compromised by the current federal government, which often does not listen to the people of this province."

Klein continues in his letter to Chretien: "I think that from this excerpt it is clear that separation is neither on the agenda nor the minds of the Alberta government.

"What is at issue, as reflected in the throne speech, is the very real sense that on a number of matters, Albertans are not being listened to by Ottawa."

Dion, in his letter to Klein, said "secession is a very grave act whereby an international border is established between fellow citizens who thus cease to be fellow citizens. There is no justification in our democracy for transforming Canadians into foreigners in relation to one another."

Dion writes that secession since the Second World War has been triggered by decolonization or "following the breakup of totalitarian empires, where fundamental rights have been violated."

The minister also seems to play down Alberta's concerns on the Kyoto accord, the monopoly of the Canadian Wheat Board and the billion-dollar gun registry.

"Nowhere in the world is the spectre of secession raised with regard to an international protocol on the environment, or a wheat board, or a firearm registry program," Dion writes.

Klein said Dion could have been more productive if he had addressed some of the issues that are causing angst in Alberta.

"Instead, the focus of his letter was a misplaced emphasis on separation, which only serves to inflame the situation," wrote Klein.

Later: "Your minister's letter's condescending lecture on the history of secessionism in the 20th century notwithstanding, I can assure you that my government's understanding of the consequences of separation or separatist threats is at least as comprehensive as the federal government's.

"It is this kind of condescension that fuels frustration with your government -- frustration that could be quelled not by letters from Ottawa, but by a clear indication of a willingness to listen."

David Taras, a political scientist at the University of Calgary, said Dion's letter is out of character, and reads like it's intended for an audience of buffoons.

"Like we don't get it. Like we're too dumb to understand. Like somehow Mr. Klein wouldn't be aware of the consequences of separation," said Taras. "It is really surprising, first that he sent the letter, and secondly the tone of the letter."

Taras said anyone in touch with Alberta political culture would recognize occasional flare-ups are inevitable.

"People who understand Alberta and the West know these kinds of frustrations exist and do boil over from time to time," he said. "You don't want to fuel the fire.

"What was the reason Dion sent the letter, when the premier has said for the 15th time that separation for Alberta is not on the table?

"It actually gives Mr. Klein another opening to reiterate the list of grievances Alberta has."

Taras said Dion is a widely respected academic. "This is out of context. I don't know why he'd do it."

A spokesman for the prime minister said both Dion and Klein stressed the importance of working to maintain a unified Canada.

"Mr. Dion wrote to Mr. Klein underlining that Albertans are proud to be Canadian and in response, Premier Klein said Albertans are proud to be part of Canada," Steven Hogue said late Friday from Ottawa.

"That's what is notable about this exchange of letters -- that's our take on this."

Also See: Full text of both letters A3

Particularly amusing is the last couple lines, where the federal government once again totally misses the point.

(And it's cool to see a former prof quoted in the papers )

[Tingkai]

Dion should be fired.

While Ralphie should be treated with contempt for his veiled threats about separatism, the Premier of Alberta is entitled to respect.

What Dion wrote is something I would expect from an Apolyton debate not from the Government of Canada.

Making a public comment about Ralphie is one thing, but it is not acceptable for federal government minister to write to a provincial premier in this manner. The fact that Dion can't recognize this subtle distinction is why he should be fired.

What's worse is Dion has turned Ralphie from being the wacko western separatist into the poor innocent victim of Ottawa arrogence. This will also fuel Western hatred for years to come.

Dion has a habit of insulting other provinces. Seems to me that he insulted Quebecers before the last referendum there.

As for whether the federal government misses the point, the comments from Hogue represents the Liberals attempt to "spin" the screw-up, not what they really think.

[Sava]

Who is the NDP? Should I like them or hate them?

I love threads where Asher and Frogger argue... they're better than DD and paiktis threads

[Kontiki]

We have four major national parties in Canada, the Liberals, NDP, Canadian Alliance, and Progressive Conservatives (the Bloc Quebecois only really operates within Quebec). On a political spectrum, the CA would be furthest right (way out there), the PC next, then Liberals, then NDP quite far to the left. The NDP is quite socialist and pro-union, but still not communist.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sava
Who is the NDP? Should I like them or hate them?

New Democratic Party.

Social Democrats