You're trying to fix the wrong thing, Marxists...

[DuncanK]

Berzerker,

I believe in school choice too. But instead of the students being able to choose the school, the school should be able to choose the students. The reason education is so screwed up is that students and parents really don't care about education anymore. Parents insist on their kids not being held accountable. Students can be very disruptive and there is absolutely nothing the school can do. In most cases, when the school tries to do anything the parents become adversarial and can cause a lot of problems.

In California we have a new graduation test that students have to pass in order to graduate. It's very low standard, but still when it takes effect (next year) a great deal of students are going to have all the credits for graduation, but they will not recieve a diploma. That will show the real crisis to the public. I don't know what will happen then, but certainly there will be some real changes in our state.

[Berzerker]

Yup, discipline is essential, but lacking in far too many schools. When I was in school and did something wrong, I had to face my parents who correctly laid the blame on me. But now it seems many parents go after the schools and teachers for the character flaws of the students. I don't care how much money is spent on schools, if children don't want an education, they won't get one and many will simply make it more difficult for others to get educated. We don't see this problem nearly as widespread in private schools because they are private and the parents are paying directly for the education.

[chequita guevara]

No, you don't see it in private schools because private schools don't have to take troublesome children. They get to pick the cream of the crop.

[DuncanK]

It's too bad we lost the desire for education that we had when sputnik was launched. I can not see any possible way of getting back to that point.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DuncanK
It's too bad we lost the desire for education that we had when sputnik was launched. I can not see any possible way of getting back to that point.

That's a myth. Kids today do more homework and have more work in general, 50% more than twenty years ago. Despite people saying how horrible our school system is, we still do most of the inovation and scientific experiementation in the world. Somehow these underperforming undereducated kids are writing the world's software, designing the world's machines, and innovating the world's new medical techniques.

Stop believing the bourgeois press, comrade.

[DuncanK]

There is a group of students from each generation that seem to be superstudents, but that group seems to be getting smaller and smaller. Any teacher will tell you that the situation with education has gotten worse year by year ever since about 1970. It's not just the media saying it.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DuncanK
There is a group of students from each generation that seem to be superstudents, but that group seems to be getting smaller and smaller.

And yet, within every industry that requires education, it's still dominated by white male Americans. Frankly, American education is no worse than Japanese or European educational systems, to which they are constantly compared. It's just that commentators play a shell game, comparing their best schools against our average schools. We also send far more students to college as a percentage than most other countries. There are problems, but the system is hardly in crisis.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We also send far more students to college as a percentage than most other countries. There are problems, but the system is hardly in crisis.

True, however that brings up another problem. Many of these students have to take remedial courses when they get to college because they don't meet minimum proficiency requirements. It's a strain on the colleges.... I'm talking about state colleges of course.

[Ramo]

That's a myth. Kids today do more homework and have more work in general, 50% more than twenty years ago. Despite people saying how horrible our school system is, we still do most of the inovation and scientific experiementation in the world. Somehow these underperforming undereducated kids are writing the world's software, designing the world's machines, and innovating the world's new medical techniques.

Stop believing the bourgeois press, comrade.

I would argue that our school system is indeed inferior to the rest of the developed world (and some of the developing world). Look at who's in hard science grad schools, for instance. They're usually foreigners, not Americans.

Piling busy work in front of students doesn't help 'em learn. I'd say that such a policy actually prevents learning. The ultimate problems are lax standards and no expectation of competency or intelligence out of students. Poverty and underpaid schools and teachers certainly don't help either.

[DuncanK]

Good Night Che

[OliverFA]

The marxists had a third of the world by themselves to prove all their theories and failed. You don't need to argue. Just see the results. Just see in which terrible state Russia was after the URSS felt. Just see the difference between eastern and western Germany. Or what about North Korea and South Korea? China and Taiwan/Hong Kong? And many many more examples.

The proves are there. Is just that some people don't want to see them. There is no worst blind that the one who doesn't want to see.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by oliverfa
The marxists had a third of the world by themselves to prove all their theories and failed. You don't need to argue. Just see the results. Just see in which terrible state Russia was after the URSS felt.

so you're saying a capitialist country would have succeeded after a devistaing world war, a bloody revolution, while being shoved into an arms race with a nation with an enormously larger pool of money to begin with, that didn't wish to have any dealing with them?

i doubt it. socialism has never been given a fair shot, america always gets in the way some how.

anyway, addressing speer: if the people in your city are stupid, dont wish to learn, sit around doing drugs all day, then they are of no use to society. AND tons of them are probably sucking on the welfare teet. just go all vigiliante-stalinist on them and cleanse your society to all it's glory.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by UberKruX
anyway, addressing speer: if the people in your city are stupid, dont wish to learn, sit around doing drugs all day, then they are of no use to society. AND tons of them are probably sucking on the welfare teet. just go all vigiliante-stalinist on them and cleanse your society to all it's glory.

Christ, I was hoping no one would ever put those ideas in his head.

[Sava]

Dumbass quote of the day

Poverty (at least in the city) is not the result of economics.

And poverty was very rampant and much worse before the social progressive programs that were created before WW2. But why let a little thing like historical fact get in the way of another brain-dead Speer rant.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by UberKruX
so you're saying a capitialist country would have succeeded after a devistaing world war, a bloody revolution, while being shoved into an arms race with a nation with an enormously larger pool of money to begin with, that didn't wish to have any dealing with them?

i doubt it. socialism has never been given a fair shot, america always gets in the way some how.

anyway, addressing speer: if the people in your city are stupid, dont wish to learn, sit around doing drugs all day, then they are of no use to society. AND tons of them are probably sucking on the welfare teet. just go all vigiliante-stalinist on them and cleanse your society to all it's glory.

What really surprises me about socialism, comunism, and all these similar ideologies is the very good way in what they sell themselves. I'm sure they would make for a terrible great marketing experts.

Where does this silly idea that socialism has never given a fair shot comes from? Can I remember you several examples? China? Russia? Cuba? Eastern Europe? North Korea? Panama? Are you saying that the "evil" capitalists managed to disturbe ALL of that experiments? In that case these country governors were plain stupid to allow it. But I don't really believe that. Russia is big enough to maintain itself without having to commerce with anyone. Even more, Russia did maintain Cuba, North Korea, and several other countries during the communism. So, you have one third of the world for yourself and you blame the rest of the world for not being fair with you? It's very easy to blame others for your own faults.

Again, there several very interesting examples to see at:
North/South Korea.
West/East Germany.
Taiwan-Hong Kong/China.

Do I need to say more? Compare the level of development in the capitalist countries with the socialist ones. Of course, Now you are going to tell me that the evil US spoiled the socialist countries, but the truth is that they spoiled themselves all alone.

Do you want another example? Look at what the socialist Chavez is doing to Venezuela.

So here we have a system that failed systematically in EVERY place that was implanted, and the very good publicists manage to blame it on the capitalists. I would love to have this publicists by my side.

And by the way, for me West Germany is a capitalist country that managed to suceed after a very devastating world war. And a very ungrateful also.