You're trying to fix the wrong thing, Marxists...

[Al B. Sure!]

DuncanK:

How can I believe it? I see it everyday of my life... people don't give a damn no more... Of course, I'd say that there's plenty of people who still try but there's just as many who are content being high and rocking fancy clothes while living in ****holes.


thanks

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Chegitz:

When you don't got food don't buy jordans...

That is something that plagues out whole society, not just the poor. People of all classes buy things all the time because they want it, even if it hurts them in some way.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Chegitz:

you did not counter anything I said... what is your solution to improve schools? Tossing more money at schools? How does that fix the attitude of students of not giving a damn?

I love how conservatives always call adequate spending, "tossing money at a problem." Guess what, the less money the schools have, the less able they are to deal with the problems they need to fix. Wonder why all the best schools are the ones with the best tax bases or the highest tuition? By your logic, there's no reason Harvard or Yale should cost so much. It's just throwing money at a problem.

And it's not just weed... it's crack... it's heroine... it's everything. it's pre-marital sex... not giving a damn about the future... all these contribute to poverty. Notice how none of them got to do with economic oppurtunity.

Notice how you still can't write properly? You don't do drugs and you're still ignorant. You don't have premarital sex, and you still can't write proper English.

So, you seem to be saying, if people are poor, they shouldn't have any fun. They shouldn't be allowed to listen to music or watch tv, because it doesn't enhance economic opportunity. People should be able to hang out with their friends, it has nothing to do with economic opportunity. Why let poor people in parks or museums. Your argument makes no sense.

And how does selfishness NOT enhance morality? Why do you not go a kill someone? 1) You will spend your life in prison 2) if you are a theist, you will go to hell... selfish reasons to not commit a moral crime.

The reason I don't kill has nothing to do with prison or eternal damnation. I don't kill because I don't want to kill. But let's talk about something a little more natural than murder, such as stealing. Fear of punishment doesn't stop crime. If you committ a crime, you don't do it thinking you're going to get caught. The theives in charge of Enron and Worldcom didn't think they were gonna get caught.

This system demands that you get ahead, that you use every weapon at your disposal to do so. That's why companies cheat on their taxes, dump pollution illegally. In fact, corporate crime is so rampant that if it were all punished, the system would come tumbling down. Far from promoting morality, this system promotes going against it. Lying, cheating, stealing, killing, all in the name of making a buck is perfectly legitimate . . . if you're rich.

[DuncanK]

Albert,

maybe they think the're going to live there anyways so they might as well enjoy it.

[Al B. Sure!]

Chegitz:

Wonder why all the best schools are the ones with the best tax bases or the highest tuition?

Go look up the best schools in the state of Pennsylvania and you will find Masterman HS and Central HS to be among the top and both are public schools in Philly

By your logic, there's no reason Harvard or Yale should cost so much. It's just throwing money at a problem.

Of course... Harvard and Yale are ridiculously priced. (I think the people there are mainly there because they can afford it, not because they have the intelligence to go there)

So, you seem to be saying, if people are poor, they shouldn't have any fun. They shouldn't be allowed to listen to music or watch tv, because it doesn't enhance economic opportunity. People should be able to hang out with their friends, it has nothing to do with economic opportunity. Why let poor people in parks or museums. Your argument makes no sense.

Watching TV may not enhance their economic status but it does not actively harm it in the same way that doing drugs would

as for your whole Enron reference... notice how they DID get caught and now they are in some pretty big trouble... what you mean the system let's that happen... the system caught it, didnt it?


thanks

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DuncanK
That is something that plagues out whole society, not just the poor. People of all classes buy things all the time because they want it, even if it hurts them in some way.

(Picking up where you left off). What is it that creates the desire to have thigs beyond your means? Advertising, psychologically crafted messages designed to make you purchase things you don't need. The average American if bombarded with almost 2,000 commercials a week. All with one message: BUY! BUY! BUY! They study us, see what makes us respond, and use it. There are scientific schools devoted to the best methods of selling to a person, using unconscoius psychological clues to uncover a person's weaknesses and exploit them.

Albert, you have so little idea as to what you're talking about it isn't even funny. You're just a raging angst-ridden teen, a rebel without a clue. Educate yourself, go to a library and [i]learn something about poverty, its causes and its effects, before vomitting all over the place.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
as for your whole Enron reference... notice how they DID get caught and now they are in some pretty big trouble... what you mean the system let's that happen... the system caught it, didnt it?

Many more have gotten away with it, or at least with minor slaps on the writs. One stell company has killed dozens of its workers through ignoring saftey, and has received the maximum fines allowed, less than a million dollars. It's more profitable for them to go on killing their employees and paying fines than it is to upgrade their safety.

I used Enron as an example, because it has enough name recognition. Do you remember the Savings and Loan debacle? How many of those execs went to jail? It cost the country almost 1.5 trillion dollars to clean up their mess. They got away with looting the nation.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


(Picking up where you left off). What is it that creates the desire to have thigs beyond your means? Advertising, psychologically crafted messages designed to make you purchase things you don't need. The average American if bombarded with almost 2,000 commercials a week. All with one message: BUY! BUY! BUY! They study us, see what makes us respond, and use it. There are scientific schools devoted to the best methods of selling to a person, using unconscoius psychological clues to uncover a person's weaknesses and exploit them.

Thanx Che. I couldn't have said it better myself. Your language skills are much better than mine

[Al B. Sure!]

Chegitz:

Why do I got to go to the library to learn about the world when I can go outside right now on my block and see exactly what we're talking about right now?

I think the liberals and leftists are too busy reading up on disertations on issues while being completely removed from the real world


thanks

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Why do I got to go to the library to learn about the world when I can go outside right now on my block and see exactly what we're talking about right now?

Because you can't just make an assumption, go look for examples, and then make a conclussion. Using the library would give you more information to make a decision. Perhaps you would see through your prejudice.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Chegitz:

Why do I got to go to the library to learn about the world when I can go outside right now on my block and see exactly what we're talking about right now?

Just because you can see it doesn't mean you can understand it. This whole thread you've only shown ignorance and stupidity. If you look up in the sky, it's obvious the sun moves around the Earth. If you look at the ground, it's obvious the Earth is flat.

Maybe while you're at the library you can pick up a book on English.

[Nubclear]

Why do people play into Speers trolls? It makes no sense....

[Urban Ranger]

Re: is this really worth the effort?

No.

Mr Social Darwinist didn't take the time to understand the issues and probably will never do so.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I used Enron as an example, because it has enough name recognition. Do you remember the Savings and Loan debacle? How many of those execs went to jail? It cost the country almost 1.5 trillion dollars to clean up their mess. They got away with looting the nation.

The (im)moral of this story is, if you want to be a crook, be the biggest one of them all. Then you can get away pretty much unscathed.

[Berzerker]

Much of what Speer says is true, although I was going to challenge parts of the essay Lazarus posted until I saw it came from Speer. Since Albert doesn't respond to my posts, I see little reason to respond to his. Below are my thoughts on why poverty exists in large cities, mostly black "inner" cities:

1) Liberals run most if not all of these cities.
2) That means higher taxes, more union corruption, more crime, and more waste.
3) Washington, D.C. spends alot on public schools, something like $10,000 per student, but how much of that really is really spent on teaching students? How much is wasted on union corruption and bureaucratic cronyism?
4) The drug war impacts inner cities more than any other segment of society, that creates more violence.
5) With more violence, hope for a future diminishes.
6) With reduced hope, more people don't take getting an education seriously.
7) Public schools have difficulty getting rid of disruptive "students" and lousy teachers.
8) That hurts the potential of serious students seeking an education.
9) Welfare has the effect of trying to replace fathers with government handouts thereby creating incentives for out of wedlock births.
10) Liberals consistently tell the poor blacks that their condition is not their fault - blame rich conservative whites instead.
11) The primary factor in poverty is illegitimacy, any program promoting illegitimacy is a recipe for disaster.
12) One reason why business tries to avoid investing in impoverished countries with unstable or leftist regimes is because of the risk of "nationalising" the investments.
While liberals running these cities might not outright steal the investments made by businesses, they do impose higher taxes and more regulations arbitrarily, and that does translate into investment risk. "Empowerment Zones" was an idea promoted to bypass this risk by providing incentives for businesses to invest in the inner city, but look what happened during the LA riots over Rodney King. Why would a business owner want to invite that kind of risk?
13) Minimum wages in large cities are often higher than the national wage, but minimum wages reduce jobs and job opportunities. Poor, unskilled young people just aren't economically worth $6/hour because they don't produce $6+ an hour. If these people can't even get on the first rung of the ladder, even one that pays $4/hour, how will they start climbing the ladder to increased wages? Of course, thanks to the drug war, they can make lots of money by selling drugs.