Bush To Ignore Voice of the People

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by CyberShy

Worldwide polls have been conducted: The world does not want a war.

conclusion: the polls are accepted if they agree with your point, and they're declined if they don't?

When did I dismiss a poll as "non-representative" of something? Dont start with that fallacy now....

No, just controlling the governament of the country in your name.
It's impossible to have 250+ million run the country.

So because a direct democracy isn't possible, we should give up our voice to 2 senators? I think not.

As if Sadam is good for the Iraqi people

Ok, If I keep saying I want him to assasinated (ie, killed), does this mean I think Saddam is for the best? NO.

Stop creating these statements out of thin air. It REALLY destroys your arguement, both the one it pertains to and the credibility of your others.

[Dinner]

Cybershy: I've read your arguments and they are logical and well written; most of the people on the other side of this debate haven't been able to make rebutals which are as written as your. Good job man.

I'd join you but I've gotten tired of the lies and name call that poly's anti-war types seem to mistake for facts and reasoned arguments. I've seen people in the media make reasonable cases both for and against stopping Saddam but some how the reasonable arguments just seem to be drowned out by the teenagers hear at poly.

[Robert]

When did I dismiss a poll as "non-representative" of something? Dont start with that fallacy now....

sorry, it's not you who did. Others did though.

So because a direct democracy isn't possible, we should give up our voice to 2 senators? I think not.

I think there should be a limit somewhere.
Meeting with 3000 senators will rather ruin the debate, which is the strength of democraty, than improve it.

But I can imagine that it's hard if your senator doesn't voice your opinion.

On 2nd thought, there are other senators, pherhaps not yours, who do voice your opinion.
They're a minority, but that appears to reflect the entire society, in which it's a minority as well.

I think you're free to use your voice, and demonstrate, but I think you should not expect the governament to base their decisions on your demonstration.

To be honest, I think that without the demonstrations the governament already knew that there is a large minority against war.

Ok, If I keep saying I want him to assasinated (ie, killed), does this mean I think Saddam is for the best? NO.

My reaction doesn't imply that you love sadam, it's morely meant to make clear that there's only one problem: Sadam.

We ALL have several ideas on how to get rid of him.
I think your 'assinate him' idea is good, but has some flaws. Nevertheless it's a valid idea.

What I tried to make clear is that the coming war is indeed no good for the iraqi people, but if nothing happens that's not good for the iraqi people as well.

Something must be done, and I'm afraid that we, people from the western world, just can't imagine evil anymore.

It's hard, but most of the time evil can't be overtrown without casualties. I wish it could be possible, but it appears to be impossible.

Most of the time it even appears that waiting longer only results in more casualties.

Conclusion, I agree with you that the presence of the american soldiers in Kuwait puts the Iraqi people more under pressure and hurts their economy.
The thing is that I can't see any other possibility to free them from their dictator without pain.

To get back on the 'assinate him' idea,
that has been tried before. 2 doubles of Sadam have already been killed. They have tried to kill the real sadam for years already. It's impossible.

Besides that, it's unsure what happens after he might be killed. The Baath party is big (1 million members) and obviously they'll come with a new dictator, pherhaps even Sadam's son.

[Robert]

Thanks Oerdin!

[MarkG]

of course Bush is listening to the voice of the people!

it's just that it's these people he's listening to:

[C0ckney]

pro-war propaganda, christ, you should be at my uni. every other day the usual loudmouths from the socialist worker lot are outside the main building whining about the war (and the fire strike, and this and that..and everything else under the sun.)

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: Re: Bush To Ignore Voice of the People

Originally posted by CyberShy

Urban Ranger: Isn't he silly or what? Aren't the weapons inpectors in there doing things?

What they are trying to do is inspecting,
but it has already been proven that the inspecting is being worked against by iraque.
that's been proven by Powel, and it's confirmed by Blix and Baradei.

Cybie, that's an interesting spin, but cannot be further from the truth. Powell provided zero evidence for his assertions, worse yet, Blair copied his report from a decade old report by a student. What's worse? Blix axed Powell's sat pictures, reconfirming that they could find no evidence of CBN weapons.

It's information like this that makes me wonder what on earth do you read for news.

Originally posted by CyberShy
It's cool though to see that you call Bush silly, and come with such a strange one-sided incomplete argument yourself.

How's that one sided? W. was trying to use a false delimma to make his case, when in face his other choice turned out to be false.

Originally posted by CyberShy
Of course you can have the opinion that the iraque should have another another very very last change to work with the inspectors, but you can imagine that Bush starts to feel like doing that thing for the 12th time is something like 'doing nothing'

Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Is there any evidence that Iraq has CBN weapons? Any at all? If they don't have any, of course nothing can be find.

Originally posted by CyberShy
But again, you have a big fat plate in front of your head, thus you can't imagine that. You can only imagine your own opinion, and how important and well-argumentated it is.

oh well, I hope you are a lucky man, living that way.
Keep them coming, those arguments!

Are these supposed to be ad hominems? Pretty weak, I say.

[OliverFA]

That "voice of people" thing would be a very funny one if it wasn't because we are talking about very serious things.

The other day I was taking a walk here in Geneva and saw a painting which readed: "Bush, Blair, Aznar, Berlusconi. Axis of the Evil". Then I started to wonder. "What do these four president have in common?" Oh yes! What they have in common is that they have been elected democratically. Three of them have been elected at least twice, and Bush have won the elections for the congress and the senate only a few months ago. It looks like people agree with them. So please, stop demagogic arguments about they not hearing people, because people like them and vote them again and again.

On the other hand, who has voted Hussein? What has happened to the German president in the last elections, when he has lost a lander in which their party traditionally always won? Why some very vocal persons keep trying to talk on behalf of me?

Please, stop the nonsense!

[SlowwHand]

Re: Bush To Ignore Voice of the People

Originally posted by David Floyd
WASHINGTON - Declaring that America's security should not be dictated by protesters, President Bush (news - web sites) said Tuesday he would not be swayed from compelling Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) to disarm. "We will deal with him," Bush said as U.S. and British diplomats weighed another bid for U.N. backing.

"War is my last choice," Bush said at the White House as echoes of anti-war protests circled the globe. "But the risk of doing nothing is even a worse option as far as I am concerned."

Ignoring some voices, David.
SOME.
Some ignorant people.

So pull your head out, and comb your hair.





Or, you can use it as an avatar.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by David Floyd
The thing is, though, what Bush is saying is that he will ignore public opinion on the matter no matter what the polls say.

No, he just said he was not be swayed by the dip**** yammerhead demonstrators. Like the loud one in your town, Austin, proclaiming that Bush was planning to nuke Brazil.

[SlowwHand]

That wasn't just any dip**** yammerhead.
That was David.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
That wasn't just any dip**** yammerhead.
That was David.

[Lefty Scaevola]

My 13 year son and wife, up there for masonic youth goverment day, were laughing their heads off at that one and other bozo speakers there. They seemed to have happened upon a loonie concentration. The broadcast media apparently ignored that group which did not suit the presupposed image they were after.

[Jac de Molay]

Yeah, I stumbled upon a pro-war rally just outside town. All those beer-swilling, NASCAR watching, mullet wearing wackos were sporting signs like "nuke Baghdad, Osama/saddam partners in crime, Anti-war/anti-patriot."

I never saw such a concentration of loonies. Then again, I wouldn't expect anything less of the pro-war movement.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
My 13 year son and wife,

I take it this is least your 2nd marriage?