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A perfect example of pulling a number out of one's ass and then repeating it as often as possible in the hope of convincing others that it's credible. At least you've been consistent. You managed to post it 4 times in this thread alone and not screw up the number.
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It is infact a UN estimate.eimi men anthropos pollon logon, mikras de sophias -
Cite please.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Here's the "real" story for post-war Iraq...
...and Bush still mentioning Democracy...
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I didn't see anything on this topic in the second article, but the first article says this....
The administration is particularly keen on averting interference by other regional powers, and cites the "ability of people like the Iranians and others to go in with money and create warlords" sympathetic to their own interests, one official said. "We don't want a weak federal government that plays into the hands of regional powers" and allows Iraq to be divided into de facto spheres of influence. "We don't want the Iranians to be paying the Shiites, the Turks the Turkmen and the Saudis the Sunnis," the official, referring to some of the main groups among dozens of Iraqi tribes and ethnic and religious groups.
They want to create a strong central government where the shiites and Kurds have no power. I don't know who will have power. They also won't give power to the Baathists. They will have to look hard to find people who aren't part of any of these groups."When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
"All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
"Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran SiddiquiComment
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What's the matter guys, didn't Monkspiders thread on the evil US plot to invade Syria and Iran not satisfy you? Now its the evil US plot to subvert democracy in post war Iraq.
I guess maybe we should have left Germany and Japan right away after WWII and allowed just anyone to be voted into power cause we all know democracy always puts the right person in power no matter what.
BTW it's usually customary to allow at least enough time to see what will happen before critizisms and wild fantasys(paiktis) takes hold.Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul TighComment
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Yes! You must vote the party line or you will be reeducated!Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I'm gonna have to take away your Marxist credentials now.
Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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DanS beat me to the (first) WAPO article.
I'm getting fed up with this bullshit.
There is no convincing case whatsoever that invading Iraq, setting up a government of our choosing, and then staying there for an undetermined number of years until the whole thing gets off the ground, is worth the time, money, and, yes, lives that we are going to have to put into it. Much less any reasonable probability of success when we are done. I am appalled that Paul Wolfowitz and his like receive any serious hearing in a democratically elected government. [/rant]
There. Now I feel much better.Old posters never die.
They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....Comment
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AS: Look at the alternative. We have been patrolling (i.e., bombing) the no-fly zones and have had sanctions on them for a decade. This isn't any good either.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Of course, if the Euros were leading the charge, they'd simply talk Saddam into surrendering without a fight (uh huh...real likely), and then summon the spirit of the Fairy Godmother of Democracy, have her wave her magic wand and make it all better overnight.
But we crude Americans can't do that, so we'll have to stick to practical, real world applications and plans....like transitional governments.
-=Vel=-Comment
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"Look at the alternative. We have been patrolling (i.e., bombing) the no-fly zones and have had sanctions on them for a decade. This isn't any good either."
And getting rid of Saddam and some other bigheads while using the Sunni clan/Baath power structure to rule Iraq as a protectorate and hold the Shiites and Kurds under the thumb is better? It's pure madness.
"But we crude Americans can't do that, so we'll have to stick to practical, real world applications and plans...."
That come around to bite you very practically into the ass.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Yep....sometimes they do.
No arguments there.
However, unlike the European mindset, that would apparently rather have america foot the bill for another 10....20....50 years of "containment" we're gonna switch things up a bit, since containment hasn't been doing a lot to change the equation, except for weaken our standing with the few friends we've got in the region.
-=Vel=-Comment
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And getting rid of Saddam and some other bigheads while using the Sunni clan/Baath power structure to rule Iraq as a protectorate and hold the Shiites and Kurds under the thumb is better? It's pure madness.
You read the article about extensive plans for de-Baathification?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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"that would apparently rather have america foot the bill for another 10....20....50 years of "containment""
If the Bushies screw this one up, and I'm 99 % certain they will, you'll get some containment problems that are bigger than the current one.
Does it feel good to do "something"? Probably. But we don't need another feel good exercise.
"You read the article about extensive plans for de-Baathification?"
A while ago. Apparantly this is no longer in the cards; otherwise the idea to rely on the sunni establishment to hold Iraq together will not work.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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A while ago. Apparantly this is no longer in the cards; otherwise the idea to rely on the sunni establishment to hold Iraq together will not work.
No, I meant the article that I linked. It describes a de-Baathification of Iraq, with the de-Nazification of Germany used as a model.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Ah. Ok that one says:
"Criteria by which officials would be designated as too tainted to keep their jobs are still being worked on"
"A large number of current officials would be retained."
iow, get some scapegoats, or in the best case the big criminals, but use the established power structure. Which would also be relatively close to "de-Nazification of Germany used as a model".“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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